[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[The Clamp]

We have no idea what weaponry has been supplied to Russia by other terrorist nations.

A Ukraine counter-offensive has a high chance of failure.

I think we need to manage expectations.

 

[peterward]

We have no idea what weaponry has been supplied to Russia by other terrorist nations.

A Ukraine counter-offensive has a high chance of failure.

I think we need to manage expectations.

It always has a chance, but a "high chance". I don't think so.

Many leading military experts and heads of state / defence mins are extremely bullish on Ukraines liklihood of victory.

If you take what's just happened with the dam, that's not the actions of a side confident in victory. Its a desperate measure from a side fearing/facing defeat.

There's a long way to go and it won't be easy, and maybe something as awful as the nuclear power plant being mined and other atrocities are still to come, but fascist Russia with its North Korean ammo and Iranian drones/missiles, will be defeated.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

It always has a chance, but a "high chance". I don't think so.

Many leading military experts and heads of state / defence mins are extremely bullish on Ukraines liklihood of victory.

If you take what's just happened with the dam, that's not the actions of a side confident in victory. Its a desperate measure from a side fearing/facing defeat.

There's a long way to go and it won't be easy, and maybe something as awful as the nuclear power plant being mined and other atrocities are still to come, but fascist Russia with its North Korean ammo and Iranian drones/missiles, will be defeated.

I agree. There will be masses of deaths, including many Ukranians in the upcoming offensive, but i'm optimistic that the tactic of holding back masses of troops for training and equipping them with modern western weaponry will trump the Russian method of continually throwing waves of untrained troops in front of machine guns.

I think today's events will harden international resolve to make sure Russia is defeated.

The world must never forget the service the brave people of Ukraine are doing for them.

 

[GT49er]

All I am saying is that if I want to see the news - I want to see what is happening now - surely everyone does don't they?
When I used to watch the Nine O'clock news - I assumed it was the news at 9 O'clock - Not what had happened by 7 O'clock
Is that too much to ask
Especially when everyone else is watching the news at 9 O'clock

What appeares in he 9 o'clock news has happened earlier in the day, not at 9 o'clock!

 

[Nobby]

What appeares in he 9 o'clock news has happened earlier in the day, not at 9 o'clock!

So you’re ok getting the 3pm football results at 7pm?

 

[A1X]

So you’re ok getting the 3pm football results at 7pm?

Only in Italy are the 3pm results known at 3pm

 

[Binney on acid]

How can Prince Harry appearing in court be considered to be of greater significance newswise by the BBC, than a psychopath unleashing genocide virtually on a global scale ? How can they justify leading with a virtual non-story ?
ITV have just done exactly the same !

 

[GT49er]

So you’re ok getting the 3pm football results at 7pm?

No, at five o'clock, as normal.

 

[fly high]

How can Prince Harry appearing in court be considered to be of greater significance newswise by the BBC, than a psychopath unleashing genocide virtually on a global scale ? How can they justify leading with a virtual non-story ?
ITV have just done exactly the same !

Same as the stuff about Schofield when that was the main item, really, give a shit.

 

[peterward]

How convenient. Shame that now the Russian Nazis claim Ukraine did it, they cant investigate it.

 

[Eric the meek]

How convenient. Shame that now the Russian Nazis claim Ukraine did it, they cant investigate it.

View attachment 161863

Bit of a coincidence that.

At least we know it wasn't some kind of 'accidental' planting of explosives which caused an environmental disaster. This latest war crime was planned and premeditated.

If reparations are paid as they should be, they will keep Russians in poverty for the rest of their lives.

 

[raymondo]

Always good to see Prigozhin attacking the Russian military's propaganda machine...I wonder how long he'll last

Ukraine war: Wagner boss rubbishes Russian claims of Ukrainian casualties

Moscow says it inflicted 3,700 casualties on Kyiv on Monday, but Yevgeny Prigozhin called the claim "absurd".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Eric the meek]

A ray of hope.

Michael Clarke on Sky saying that the disaster may not be - quite - as bad as at first thought:

His reasoning is that the dam was breached at the top, so the depth of water in the reservoir will drain down only as far as the breach is deep, (provided the rest of the dam holds).

Ukraine-Russia war latest: US working to share intel on dam disaster; thousands fleeing floods; Zelenskyy upbeat on counteroffensive

A dam in a Russian-controlled part of Ukraine has been "blown up", with both sides in the war blaming each other. Elsewhere, a feud between the Wagner Group of mercenaries and the Russian military has reportedly turned violent. Watch aerial footage of the dam damage in the video below.

news.sky.com

He also says that it was the Russians. He is convinced for a number of reasons.

 

[Nobby]

No, at five o'clock, as normal.

GT49er said:
What, exactly, is the benefit - or need - to you to get the news two hours earlier? How, precisely, does that improve anything practically?

 

[Eric the meek]

GT49er said:
What, exactly, is the benefit - or need - to you to get the news two hours earlier? How, precisely, does that improve anything practically?

It doesn't. Neither does pursuing pointless discussions about it.

This thread is about the Russia - Ukraine war. There has just been a catastrophic man-made environmental disaster. The worst one for decades.
Sometimes, a thread is just too important - and the subject too grave - to be derailed by tangential discussions around how timely people like their news.

 

[GT49er]

What I find puzzling - and disappointing in all this - is that 'our' spooks seem to have been totally inneffective in countering Russia's domestic propaganda. Ordinary Russians still seem to believe their country is under threat, and if their boys are dying (but only a few of them, according to the propaganda machine) it's a necessary evil to protect Mother Russia.

The message doesn't need to be complicated -
1). Russia attacked Ukraine - end of.
2). Some Ukrainian cities have been razed to the ground (irrefutable photographic evidence available).
3). That has caused the death of hundreds/thousands of unarmed civilians .................
4). ......and made thousands more homeless.
5). That even if Russia 'wins' this 'military exercise', all it will win is a desolate and nuclear dangeros wasteland.

It'll take time, and will have oovercome enormous cultural resisitance - but surely it is a way forward. A way which may be being tried, but isn't getting far, it seems. Come on our spooks - up your game FFS!

 

[GT49er]

It doesn't. Neither does pursuing pointless discussions about it.

This thread is about the Russia - Ukraine war. There has just been a catastrophic man-made environmental disaster. The worst one for decades.
Sometimes, a thread is just too important - and the subject too grave - to be derailed by tangential discussions around how timely people like their news.

Absolutely agree! Still, the BBC is shit - isn't that the only acceptable metric for some people now? Anyway, I'm out - verified news is fine by me.

 

[Triggaaar]

What I find puzzling - and disappointing in all this - is that 'our' spooks seem to have been totally inneffective in countering Russia's domestic propaganda. Ordinary Russians still seem to believe their country is under threat, and if their boys are dying (but only a few of them, according to the propaganda machine) it's a necessary evil to protect Mother Russia.

The message doesn't need to be complicated -
1). Russia attacked Ukraine - end of.
2). Some Ukrainian cities have been razed to the ground (irrefutable photographic evidence available).
3). That has caused the death of hundreds/thousands of unarmed civilians .................
4). ......and made thousands more homeless.
5). That even if Russia 'wins' this 'military exercise', all it will win is a desolate and nuclear dangeros wasteland.

It'll take time, and will have oovercome enormous cultural resisitance - but surely it is a way forward. A way which may be being tried, but isn't getting far, it seems. Come on our spooks - up your game FFS!

If only it were that simple.

1) They are Russian and have been told their whole lives that Russia is great and the West is bad, and now they're told that the evil West (more Nazis) are attacking them. Why on earth would they believe that they attacked their brothers in Ukraine for no reason?
2) Cities destroyed by evil Ukrainians who are killing the citizens who voted to join Russia.
3) Yes, damn those evil Ukrainians.
4) Yep.
5) No, Russia can save the good Ukrainians from the evil ones.

Spooks can't compete with a whole system of lies.

 

[GT49er]

If only it were that simple.

1) They are Russian and have been told their whole lives that Russia is great and the West is bad, and now they're told that the evil West (more Nazis) are attacking them. Why on earth would they believe that they attacked their brothers in Ukraine for no reason?
2) Cities destroyed by evil Ukrainians who are killing the citizens who voted to join Russia.
3) Yes, damn those evil Ukrainians.
4) Yep.
5) No, Russia can save the good Ukrainians from the evil ones.

Spooks can't compete with a whole system of lies.

They can chip away. They can instigate doubt. Not overnght, of course - but alternative news channels, and targetted social media, should be able to overcome the Russian controllers' blocking. Slowly.

 

[Triggaaar]

They can chip away.

They do.

They can instigate doubt.

Some people do have some doubt about the truth of Russian news.

Not overnght, of course - but alternative news channels

Alternative channels are banned in Russia.

and targetted social media, should be able to overcome the Russian controllers' blocking. Slowly.

Russians don't believe the 'lying Western social media' when they're being fed lies on their main news all day every day. A lot don't use social media at all.

Russians are brainwashed. Just like people in China, who don't want the truth, they want what they've been taught to want.