[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[A1X]

They were never a realistic option.

Yep. The tactic is pretty clear, ask for the world, get refused that but be given the stuff you actually need now.

So asking for UK jets will likely be rejected to avoid escalation, but as a compromise they can get hold of MiGs from other NATO members with the likes of the UK and US backfilling those to the likes of Poland etc. These would be more useful as the Ukranians will be familiar with the equipment so can get it into the fray quicker.

 

[raymondo]

Chopsy Medvedev

"Push back Poland's border"
Hmmm?

Yes, Medvedev continues to be very hawkish. One (ex) Russian commentator suggested Putin might give Medvedev full power and responsibility for the invasion: Medvedev either then wins something (and possibly becomes president in 2024 with Putin's backing)., or if Russia loses then Putin can appear distanced from that defeat.
If they entered NATO territory (eg Poland) that would be a very stupid move from Ruzzia ...and therefore not impossible.

 

[A1X]

Yes, Medvedev continues to be very hawkish. One (ex) Russian commentator suggested Putin might give Medvedev full power and responsibility for the invasion: Medvedev either then wins something (and possibly becomes president in 2024 with Putin's backing)., or if Russia loses then Putin can appear distanced from that defeat.
If they entered NATO territory (eg Poland) that would be a very stupid move from Ruzzia ...and therefore not impossible.

If Russia enters NATO territory I think it would very soon find itself back out of NATO territory given the absolute state of their efforts in Ukraine. The Ukranians are obviously an extremely good and organised military, but not a patch on the combined efforts of NATO. I'd give them an hour, tops, before they're back licking their wounds on their own side of the border.

 

[raymondo]

• China’s call for peace talks between Ukraine and Russia “doesn’t have much credibility” the secretary-general of Nato Jens Stoltenberg has said, as he warned China against supplying arms to the Kremlin war machine. Stoltenberg told reporters “China doesn’t have much credibility because they have not been able to condemn the illegal invasion of Ukraine and they also signed just days before the invasion an agreement between President Xi and President Putin on a limitless partnership with Russia.”

Stoltenberg's messaging is consistent and strong.

 

[raymondo]

If Russia enters NATO territory I think it would very soon find itself back out of NATO territory given the absolute state of their efforts in Ukraine. The Ukranians are obviously an extremely good and organised military, but not a patch on the combined efforts of NATO. I'd give them an hour, tops, before they're back licking their wounds on their own side of the border.

Yep, that sounds about right.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

If anyone in any doubt about where China now stands this data is more powerful than their pretty speeches about peace;

China's independent refiners set to embrace wide variety of #Russian crude grades

Five cargoes of Russian Arctic sweet #crude grades to arrive in February
Refiners find Varandey crude specifications similar to ESPO
Growing inquiries for more Urals crude pushing out #Iranian barrels

Source is S & P Global Commodity Insights.

 

[sparkie]

Lol.

 

[jakarta]

Yes, Medvedev continues to be very hawkish. One (ex) Russian commentator suggested Putin might give Medvedev full power and responsibility for the invasion: Medvedev either then wins something (and possibly becomes president in 2024 with Putin's backing)., or if Russia loses then Putin can appear distanced from that defeat.
If they entered NATO territory (eg Poland) that would be a very stupid move from Ruzzia ...and therefore not impossible.

Perhaps someone should tell him they would have to go through the Ukraine to get to Poland?

Which to say the least, seems unlikely at present...

 

[jcdenton08]

If Russia enters NATO territory I think it would very soon find itself back out of NATO territory given the absolute state of their efforts in Ukraine. The Ukranians are obviously an extremely good and organised military, but not a patch on the combined efforts of NATO. I'd give them an hour, tops, before they're back licking their wounds on their own side of the border.

You speak as if there are battalions of soldiers with equipment wandering around in NATO uniforms or something. Aside from small UN peacekeeping forces, NATO is an on-paper alliance which thankfully has not ever been properly tested.

If, for example, Russia were to encroach on Poland, it will be the Polish army responding. In the coming days and weeks, NATO will deliberate what to do - almost certainly attempt de-escalation.

Whilst Russia have so far been pretty incompetent from everything I’ve seen and read, we’ve never really seen how NATO works when article 5 is actioned.

 

[hampshirebrightonboy]

Yes, Medvedev continues to be very hawkish. One (ex) Russian commentator suggested Putin might give Medvedev full power and responsibility for the invasion: Medvedev either then wins something (and possibly becomes president in 2024 with Putin's backing)., or if Russia loses then Putin can appear distanced from that defeat.
If they entered NATO territory (eg Poland) that would be a very stupid move from Ruzzia ...and therefore not impossible.

Putin or Medvedev not sure who is the bigger cvnt

 

[raymondo]

In case this hasn't been posted

‘Victory for Ukraine’: Shakhtar Donetsk into Europa League last 16

Exiled from Donetsk and after an exodus of star players, team pulls off stunning Rennes win on anniversary of warLive coverage of the Russia-Ukraine war

www.theguardian.com

 

[raymondo]

Perhaps someone should tell him they would have to go through the Ukraine to get to Poland?

Which to say the least, seems unlikely at present...

They can go through Belarus... not very difficult

 

[raymondo]

You speak as if there are battalions of soldiers with equipment wandering around in NATO uniforms or something. Aside from small UN peacekeeping forces, NATO is an on-paper alliance which thankfully has not ever been properly tested.

If, for example, Russia were to encroach on Poland, it will be the Polish army responding. In the coming days and weeks, NATO will deliberate what to do - almost certainly attempt de-escalation.

Whilst Russia have so far been pretty incompetent from everything I’ve seen and read, we’ve never really seen how NATO works when article 5 is actioned.

Exactly this. It's not inconceivable that Russia/Belarus contrive a false flag operation on the Polish border just to check what might happen.

 

[jakarta]

They can go through Belarus... not very difficult

Well if that was the case I would imagine satellites & drones would let NATO exactly where the Russians were and help them back across the Border ASAP.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

You speak as if there are battalions of soldiers with equipment wandering around in NATO uniforms or something. Aside from small UN peacekeeping forces, NATO is an on-paper alliance which thankfully has not ever been properly tested.

If, for example, Russia were to encroach on Poland, it will be the Polish army responding. In the coming days and weeks, NATO will deliberate what to do - almost certainly attempt de-escalation.

Whilst Russia have so far been pretty incompetent from everything I’ve seen and read, we’ve never really seen how NATO works when article 5 is actioned.

Doesn't the US have an air force base in Poland?

I'm sure they would quickly deploy thier F22s should the Russians be foolish enough to test them.

 

[Eric the meek]

Exactly this. It's not inconceivable that Russia/Belarus contrive a false flag operation on the Polish border just to check what might happen.

Or to 'give Belarus no choice' but to join in alongside Russia.

This report of a week ago, seemed to come right out of the blue, and right out of the Soviet playbook.

Belarus' Lukashenko says it will only fight alongside Russia if Belarus attacked

Belarus' President Alexander Lukashenko said on Thursday he would only order his troops to fight alongside ally Russia if another country launches an attack against Belarus, the state-run Belta news agency reported.

www.reuters.com

 

[jcdenton08]

Doesn't the US have an air force base in Poland?

I'm sure they would quickly deploy thier F22s should the Russians be foolish enough to test them.

Very unlikely to do this on another country’s soil without explicit permission and without article 5 being applied then presidential approval. So no, doubt it, unless under direct attack.

 

[Weststander]

RIP to all Ukrainians and foreigners murdered over the last 12 months.

The thoughts of the kind world will always be with you.

 

[raymondo]

Well if that was the case I would imagine satellites & drones would let NATO exactly where the Russians were and help them back across the Border ASAP.

Hopefully, yes.

 

[raymondo]

Or to 'give Belarus no choice' but to join in alongside Russia.

This report of a week ago, seemed to come right out of the blue, and right out of the Soviet playbook.

Belarus' Lukashenko says it will only fight alongside Russia if Belarus attacked

Belarus' President Alexander Lukashenko said on Thursday he would only order his troops to fight alongside ally Russia if another country launches an attack against Belarus, the state-run Belta news agency reported.

www.reuters.com

Yes, that sounded to me like setting the backdrop for a potential false flag.