[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Eric the meek]

To be fair, they must have heard something or they wouldn’t currently be fleeing for the borders. If they were all totally brainwashed and ignorant, they’d be champing at the bit to fight for the Mother Land?

While I understand their reaction, I have lost some respect for Russians today. Brave enough to protest when the war affects them, barely a Tweet when it’s happening to their neighbours.

Exactly. Some will have heard about Bucha and Izyum, and some won't. Those who haven't heard about Bucha and Izyum, soon will.

Comrade, why does the special military operation need an extra 300,000 troops after seven months? That's more than we started the special military operation with! What happened to the existing troops? Have the Ukrainians killed them all?

In addition, they will have seen the Russian state TV programs detailing the modern weapons the west have been supplying to Ukraine, put 2 and 2 together, and concluded that they are being told to take a one-way ticket to Ukraine, a place in which Russians are losing their own war, and have already committed atrocities. They must be absolutely sh***ing themselves.

 

[vegster]

To be fair, they must have heard something or they wouldn’t currently be fleeing for the borders. If they were all totally brainwashed and ignorant, they’d be champing at the bit to fight for the Mother Land?

While I understand their reaction, I have lost some respect for Russians today. Brave enough to protest when the war affects them, barely a Tweet when it’s happening to their neighbours.

Very true, mostly silent apart from a few acts of defiance until the mobilisation announcement then suddenly running for the hills when they realise its their arses on the line. They are certainly more aware of what has been happening than they like to let on and are fully aware that they have grabbed a Tiger by the tail.

 

[jcdenton08]

Was Bucha the one which was a complete massacre of the Ukrainians?

 

[Insel affe]

Let’s not forget that this is not a war Russian people asked for, yes there are some that want and believe the rhetoric being fed from Putin.

But remember the Russian people are controlled, lied too, manipulated, and the vast majority are decent human beings with the same desires and morals as us. Imagine being forced to fight in a “special operation”

We are all humans, I’ve noticed recently on here we are generalising a whole country, we need to not be that way.

Child heard crying as mobilised Russian men leave to fight https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63002654

 

[Sirnormangall]

United Nations speeches were interesting today. Don’t think I learned much that was new, though I was sort of pleasantly surprised by China showing sympathy for Ukraine and the need to respect sovereign territory. Same old lies from Lavrov portraying Russia as the victims ( well, if you don’t like it just f*ck off out of Ukraine?). Don’t know how he keeps a straight face.

James Cleverly spoke well. Not sure about Blinkin - always seems like a rabbit caught in headlights, reading for the first time a speech that’s just been thrust into his hands.

 

[Eric the meek]

'Putin ‘passes secret law to send one million Russians to fight in Ukraine’

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...ng-against-putins-mobilisation-summoned-join/

'According to Novaya Gazeta, an exiled independent newspaper, citing an anonymous Kremlin source, the redacted Section 7 of Putin's decree states that up to one million men could be mobilised.'

Is this why Putin's speech was delayed for so long? And when it appeared, section 7 was missing?

 

[Insel affe]

'Putin ‘passes secret law to send one million Russians to fight in Ukraine’

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...ng-against-putins-mobilisation-summoned-join/

'According to Novaya Gazeta, an exiled independent newspaper, citing an anonymous Kremlin source, the redacted Section 7 of Putin's decree states that up to one million men could be mobilised.'

Is this why Putin's speech was delayed for so long? And when it appeared, section 7 was missing?

And why there was a mass exodus of men of fighting age at the airports and train stations yesterday…

 

[Insel affe]

How Some can be indoctrinated, The Meantraitors we’re the first Russian Psychobilly band in about 1989 and released an album, thick vinyl you could use as a roof tile, totally inspired by 80s English psychobilly with a double bass etc. Time moved on, they even pissed the Meteors off who and refused to play with them on a Russian tour. They have been ostracised from the scene in Europe and now switched to a bass guitar (not really psycho).

They released this a few weeks ago, listen…
It’s Bollox, sad and totally unavoidable, the guys played in Europe, idolised an English scene and now probably at 40 years old are churning out this shite.

I know I said in a previous post not all Russians are too blame, and believe me they are not, However there are idiots like these.

https://youtu.be/YIx2IgqHoI0

The lyrics are pathetic as is the rhetoric, this is not Psychobilly

As at early Meteors gigs in 1980 the policy was, "feck politics feck religion”
As a reaction to the NF at the time, the wreckin crew and kattle (meteors hard men crew) even had large scale fights against the Nazis at gigs.

 

[raymondo]

Was Bucha the one which was a complete massacre of the Ukrainians?

Yes, many (100s?) of civilians murdered

 

[sparkie]

It seems that the mobilisation is only hitting under 35's at the moment.

If I was over 35 in Russia I'd be heading for the exit door ASAP before I was sent to be cannon fodder in one man's pointless and failed vanity Z-war.

It's all very well for the vatniks and bloodthirsty babooskas to support a TV "special operation" but when it comes to them or their families being actually sent to die it should a different story.

I'm not sure that Putin will survive many mobilised body bags coming back.

 

[Eric the meek]

It seems that the mobilisation is only hitting under 35's at the moment.

If I was over 35 in Russia I'd be heading for the exit door ASAP before I was sent to be cannon fodder in one man's pointless and failed Z-war.

It's all very well for the vatniks and bloodthirsty babooskas to support a TV "special operation" but when it comes to them or their families being actually sent to die it should a different story.

I'm not sure that Putin will survive many mobilised body bags coming back.

I wonder if we'll see the return of the mobile mortuaries that we saw early on in the war?

I trust Ukraine will treat Russian bodies with more respect than Russia does, and make sure they are transported back onto Russian soil, complete with identification, under the glare of TV lights, so that they cannot be incinerated on the spot by the Russians.

 

[Baldseagull]

Heard on Polish TV that some Ukrainians are less than impressed with the protesters in Russia.

The reason - they didn't protest when they heard about Bucha or Izyum. But they are now protesting purely out of self-interest.

The Ukrainians have got a point.

Many Russians in Moscow and St Petersburg are well aware that their Government feeds them Propaganda, it is just that they also know that other Governments do it too, they are much more suspicious of all media reports as a result, and Russian FSB and others will be active on social media posing as individuals with first hand experience claiming it was all staged.
The pregnant girl that was shown at the maternity hospital that was shelled by Russian forces is now in Russia and is making claims that it was all staged, it is impossible to tell how much of what she says she is being coerced into saying, or if she has pro Russian sympathy despite being shelled, but it all helps to cast doubt on what you see and hear, especially if you don't want to believe it.

 

[Baldseagull]

And why there was a mass exodus of men of fighting age at the airports and train stations yesterday…

I heard that within an hour of Putins announcement, all flights to anywhere Russians can get to without a visa were fully booked.

 

[raymondo]

My wife's parents are in an occupied village in Zaporozhye oblast. Russians have replaced Ukrainian mobile networks with their own and there is now only Russian TV available. The only news is Russian, so they hear nothing of the Ukrainian successes around Kharkiv and Kerson. They feel abandoned - only younger locals get better news from the internet, and keep quiet about it because of intimidation from the armed Russian occupiers.

 

[Eric the meek]

Many Russians in Moscow and St Petersburg are well aware that their Government feeds them Propaganda, it is just that they also know that other Governments do it too, they are much more suspicious of all media reports as a result, and Russian FSB and others will be active on social media posing as individuals with first hand experience claiming it was all staged.
The pregnant girl that was shown at the maternity hospital that was shelled by Russian forces is now in Russia and is making claims that it was all staged, it is impossible to tell how much of what she says she is being coerced into saying, or if she has pro Russian sympathy despite being shelled, but it all helps to cast doubt on what you see and hear, especially if you don't want to believe it.

Not being an expert in propaganda, I've always wondered about the format of those discussions on Russian state TV. They have the hawks, but they also have the moderates, which on the face of it, seems odd.

I remember one of the moderates having a bit of a rant about the modern weapons that were being sent to Ukraine, and in the background was video of what looked like a shipment of those weapons being opened. So that whole section, including the rant, was planned and pre-meditated.

I suspect the moderates are invited on to gain the trust of the viewers, and then used to disseminate a message that the leadership want the viewers to take away. No doubt there are other techniques being used, which I'm not aware of.

 

[maltaseagull]

To be fair, they must have heard something or they wouldn’t currently be fleeing for the borders. If they were all totally brainwashed and ignorant, they’d be champing at the bit to fight for the Mother Land?

While I understand their reaction, I have lost some respect for Russians today. Brave enough to protest when the war affects them, barely a Tweet when it’s happening to their neighbours.

I agree with you if it is true, but isn't the Russian internet heavily controlled?

Are they able to tweet?
I read today about protesters being arrested and served with call up papers. That is really going to find well motivated troops!

 

[SeagullinExile]

I wonder if we'll see the return of the mobile mortuaries that we saw early on in the war?

I trust Ukraine will treat Russian bodies with more respect than Russia does, and make sure they are transported back onto Russian soil, complete with identification, under the glare of TV lights, so that they cannot be incinerated on the spot by the Russians.

Ukraine has been. However, filming it would be a breach of the Geneva convention I do believe?

 

[Eric the meek]

Ukraine has been. However, filming it would be a breach of the Geneva convention I do believe?

You may have a point, but I'm not advocating filming identifiable dead bodies ! I'm sorry if you assumed otherwise.

Some months ago, I saw footage of the outside of a train with refrigerated carriages, which was reported as containing dead Russian troops in body bags, on their way from Ukraine to the Russian border. There were obviously no close-ups.

 

[Pondicherry]

The pregnant girl that was shown at the maternity hospital that was shelled by Russian forces is now in Russia and is making claims that it was all staged, it is impossible to tell how much of what she says she is being coerced into saying, or if she has pro Russian sympathy despite being shelled, but it all helps to cast doubt on what you see and hear, especially if you don't want to believe it.

I believe her 'retraction' video has been pretty well de bunked by Associated Press (who did the original video, pictures and interview). All Governments feed populations propaganda to some extent. However as best as I can tell, virtually nothing coming out of Russia is the truth. I suspect a large percentage of the Russian population know this. They are subjugated by violence and fear by the dictator Putin and his cabal.

 

[Icy Gull]

This thread started months before the Russian invasion as "what time is kick off"? I think we could be heading the same way in a few months with tactical nukes once the referendums have been rigged, even if Putin gets ousted/assassinated/falls down the stairs/falls out of a window/gets poisoned

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/worl...sedgntp&cvid=6316f01de8354fbdaa969320d0441409