[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Spiros]

Of course not ‘every’ case. You can’t say that about anything or anyone really. A majority? Quite possibly. Russians have form, our values are totally at odds with and have been for centuries. Russians raped millions of German women and minors. Millions. Encouraged by their leaders. Not a few isolated instances, but millions. Russians have a very different mindset then we do, they’re several hundred years behind us socially.

So the actions of the Red Army in the 1940's - btw in the immediate aftermath of the Germans doing the same and worse to the Russians they invaded - frame what you think is happening in the Russian army today? The world - including Russia - has moved on from the 1940s. I would agree that our values may be different to theirs but their population don't have the freedom to express their own values in the way we do. The fact that special units from Syria and mercenaries indicates that the average Russian soldier doesn't have the heart for this but can't easily back out because (1) they're in the army and (2) because of consequences not just for themselves but for their families too

The aggressor here is Putin and he's using Russia as the tool for his personal ambitions. Let's not try to stereotype every Russian as someone who wants to go back to the Soviet era or just kill everybody who isn't Russian

 

[Baldseagull]

Ukraine is saying the Russian Warship was hit with two Neptune missiles, Russia is saying that the Ship has done as suggested by the soldiers on Snake Island, and has ****ed itself. Either way, it is out of the war for the time being.

 

[The Clamp]

Absolute hardest ******* I ever met was Ernie Woodward, a Builder who did some work for my Dad at his Garage/Showroom - he had been a Commando and knew several ways of killing people without weapons. Amazing thing was he was about 5 foot 5 (but also about the same wide and had arms as big as your thighs).

Found out years later he also topped his Wife's Lover when he was demobbed in 1945, then took him up the Derbyshire Moors and buried him.

No one said a word about it, including his Wife. Different times to be sure...

Well, someone did

 

[aolstudios]

Absolute hardest ******* I ever met was Ernie Woodward, a Builder who did some work for my Dad at his Garage/Showroom - he had been a Commando and knew several ways of killing people without weapons. Amazing thing was he was about 5 foot 5 (but also about the same wide and had arms as big as your thighs).

Found out years later he also topped his Wife's Lover when he was demobbed in 1945, then took him up the Derbyshire Moors and buried him.

No one said a word about it, including his Wife. Different times to be sure...

My Grandad was a Commando /Royal Marine in the war. Nice bloke but thoroughly terrifying

 

[portlock seagull]

So the actions of the Red Army in the 1940's - btw in the immediate aftermath of the Germans doing the same and worse to the Russians they invaded - frame what you think is happening in the Russian army today? The world - including Russia - has moved on from the 1940s. I would agree that our values may be different to theirs but their population don't have the freedom to express their own values in the way we do. The fact that special units from Syria and mercenaries indicates that the average Russian soldier doesn't have the heart for this but can't easily back out because (1) they're in the army and (2) because of consequences not just for themselves but for their families too

The aggressor here is Putin and he's using Russia as the tool for his personal ambitions. Let's not try to stereotype every Russian as someone who wants to go back to the Soviet era or just kill everybody who isn't Russian

Essentially, yes. Not least because “my generalisation” is stronger than “your generalisation” currently. I think you’ve got to understand the general Russian psyche, fostered by centuries of brutalisation up to and including the present day. And though you seemingly dismissed, a reminder the Russian army raped millions of women and minors. Millions. That should be part of their collective national conscious and shame. But it isn’t. So yes, I think there is a link to current day. To paraphrase you, let’s not stereotype every Russian as innocent. Collectively, they are all complicit to a degree in this tragedy. Just as the Germans were, despite recent revisionist rubbish trying to separate Nazis from Germans. Without Germans, there wouldn’t have been any Nazis.

 

[jakarta]

Well, someone did

It was well known she was shagging this bloke while he was away serving and presumably Ernie told her that she wouldn't be seeing him any more.

Buried somewhere between Macclesfield to Buxton apparently. One of my favourite Biking Roads...

 

[schmunk]

Essentially, yes. Not least because “my generalisation” is stronger than “your generalisation” currently. I think you’ve got to understand the general Russian psyche, fostered by centuries of brutalisation up to and including the present day. And though you seemingly dismissed, a reminder the Russian army raped millions of women and minors. Millions. That should be part of their collective national conscious and shame. But it isn’t. So yes, I think there is a link to current day. To paraphrase you, let’s not stereotype every Russian as innocent. Collectively, they are all complicit to a degree in this tragedy. Just as the Germans were, despite recent revisionist rubbish trying to separate Nazis from Germans. Without Germans, there wouldn’t have been any Nazis.

That's rubbish, equivalent to saying that every British person is responsible for Brexit.

 

[portlock seagull]

That's rubbish, equivalent to saying that every British person is responsible for Brexit.

It isn’t because I never said that. You just chose to interpret that way.

 

[Spiros]

Essentially, yes. Not least because “my generalisation” is stronger than “your generalisation” currently. I think you’ve got to understand the general Russian psyche, fostered by centuries of brutalisation up to and including the present day. And though you seemingly dismissed, a reminder the Russian army raped millions of women and minors. Millions. That should be part of their collective national conscious and shame. But it isn’t. So yes, I think there is a link to current day. To paraphrase you, let’s not stereotype every Russian as innocent. Collectively, they are all complicit to a degree in this tragedy. Just as the Germans were, despite recent revisionist rubbish trying to separate Nazis from Germans. Without Germans, there wouldn’t have been any Nazis.

I’m certainly not generalising every Russian as innocent but you certainly seem to think that being Russian automatically means wanting to brutalise anyone in your way.

I agree that without the Germans there wouldn’t have been Nazis, the main difference being that Hitler had far more popular support at home for his war than Putin has for his

 

[The Clamp]

And this is exactly why governments urged people not to go and fight in Ukraine. Now resources have to be spent in looking for him, negotiating his release etc.

Brave in some ways, so stupid in others. Didn’t think of the bigger picture.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...raine-reportedly-pictured-beaten-and-handcuff

“British man captured in Ukraine reportedly pictured beaten and handcuffed
Diplomats working to find Aiden Aslin, who was forced to surrender to Russian troops with his unit in Mariupol”.

 

[Hugo Rune]

And this is exactly why governments urged people not to go and fight in Ukraine. Now resources have to be spent in looking for him, negotiating his release etc.

Er…….not exactly what Liz Truss said at the beginning of the conflict!

https://youtu.be/NXcSz9EBDx0

 

[Wrong-Direction]

Er…….not exactly what Liz Truss said at the beginning of the conflict!

https://youtu.be/NXcSz9EBDx0

https://youtu.be/n_wkO4hk07o

I despise her just as much as Boris

Sent from my SM-A326B using Tapatalk

 

[Rodney Thomas]

And this is exactly why governments urged people not to go and fight in Ukraine. Now resources have to be spent in looking for him, negotiating his release etc.

Brave in some ways, so stupid in others. Didn’t think of the bigger picture.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...raine-reportedly-pictured-beaten-and-handcuff

“British man captured in Ukraine reportedly pictured beaten and handcuffed
Diplomats working to find Aiden Aslin, who was forced to surrender to Russian troops with his unit in Mariupol”.

This guy went to Ukraine in 2018 to help fight against Russia. Before that he was in Syria fighting Islamic State. Unless he was using war for some nefarious purpose, then he's definitely on the right side of history. I don't begrudge some resources being spent on him, do you?

 

[The Clamp]

Er…….not exactly what Liz Truss said at the beginning of the conflict!

https://youtu.be/NXcSz9EBDx0

Well that sums our lot up really! Other governments and military bods warned people not to travel to fight, even trained services personnel. And this is why.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Russians confirm the warship has now sunk.

 

[vegster]

Russians confirm the warship has now sunk.

Only because it was scuttled in an attempt to put out a fire in an ashtray.

 

[driddles]

Damaged Russian warship Moskva has sunk - Russian ministry
Russia’s defence ministry has put out a statement to say its Moskva missile cruise ship has sunk in the Black Sea off southern Ukraine.

It’s still unclear whether it was hit by Ukrainian weaponry.


The ship is believed to have experienced significant damage and was thought to be heading to Sevastopol, Crimea, before it succumbed.

Russia earlier claimed it had experienced damage as a result of an ammunition fire on board. Crew were evacuated. Ukraine had claimed the ship has sunk, Russia denied it, then came reports that Russia was towing its ships further out to sea, perhaps to take them out of Ukrainian cruise missile range.

Moskva was apparently under tow when it sank.

Russia only has three of this flagship class of warship, which uses a crew of almost 500 sailors.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Only because it was scuttled in an attempt to put out a fire in an ashtray.

Good effort.

But the Russian propaganda machine found a different excuse:

“Moskva, the flagship of Russia's Black Sea fleet, was being towed to port when "stormy seas" caused it to sink, according to a ministry message.”

 

[vegster]

Good effort.

But the Russian propaganda machine found a different excuse:

“Moskva, the flagship of Russia's Black Sea fleet, was being towed to port when "stormy seas" caused it to sink, according to a ministry message.”

Ah so not the lack of crew and a couple of fudging great holes in it then ?

 

[Baldseagull]

And this is exactly why governments urged people not to go and fight in Ukraine. Now resources have to be spent in looking for him, negotiating his release etc.

Brave in some ways, so stupid in others. Didn’t think of the bigger picture.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...raine-reportedly-pictured-beaten-and-handcuff

“British man captured in Ukraine reportedly pictured beaten and handcuffed
Diplomats working to find Aiden Aslin, who was forced to surrender to Russian troops with his unit in Mariupol”.

He possibly is the sort of bloke that may have left Britain to fight in Ukraine, but I believe he actually lives in Ukraine.