[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Blue Valkyrie]

Watching Bowen's reporting on the BBC shows how senseless this all is.

So much evil for so little to gain.

Putin has to pay personnally with everything he has - bar his life, but including his freedom - for this needless war.

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[The Clamp]

Putin needs to be sent to one of his own labour camps and if he’s not dead within 5 years he can be drug into a courtyard and shot unceremoniously in the head. Along with his yes men. And they should be told exactly what is going to happen so they know they can’t work their way out of this. At the end of five years hard labour, you get executed. No reprieve. No news of you will ever reach the outside world again.

Ghosts, condemned to an agonising last few years of their miserable lives.

 

[Eric the meek]

think he's overplaying "fooling", thing to note the fuel is in the convoy and gets stuck in the rear. certainly its hubris, Russia expecting little resistance expecting to make the ground in one day. military analysis read weeks ago suggested they simply put too much down one route, literally all on one road, unable to manoeuvre.

I'm inclined to agree with you.

What is missing in that tweet is how exactly the Ukrainians persuaded the Russian commanders in the convoy, that the replacement fuel, food and ammo supply was 'just coming' for two weeks. While a great story, it seems a bit unlikely.

 

[essbee1]

Putin needs to be sent to one of his own labour camps and if he’s not dead within 5 years he can be drug into a courtyard and shot unceremoniously in the head. Along with his yes men. And they should be told exactly what is going to happen so they know they can’t work their way out of this. At the end of five years hard labour, you get executed. No reprieve. No news of you will ever reach the outside world again.

Ghosts, condemned to an agonising last few years of their miserable lives.

Harsh, but fair Clamp.

I would also insist that every week on the same day and at the same time they are attacked by a pack of angry dogs and their wounds
treated only to keep them alive.

 

[Triggaaar]

Russians state that Ukraine are staging the images of murdered civilians and atrocities.

As was obviously going to be the case.

The first statement won't hold up in court, and any convicted in their absence will still be hunted by nazi killers for the rest of their lives.

It's not the same as the Nazis because Germany fell, meaning there was no safe haven for them. We're not expecting Russia to fall, so there will always be a safe haven for them there.

The first video of them giving "humanitarian" aid had to be removed as the goods had Ukrainian labels on them and weren't brands available in Russia - obviously looted from Ukraine

 

[Yoda]

Russians state that Ukraine are staging the images of murdered civilians and atrocities.

They have apparently been giving humanitarian aid to civilians and Ukraine are trying to undermine peace talks whilst escalating violence.

NOTHING other than the removal/assassination/ sudden death of Putin is going to bring this murderous genocide to an end

You can thank Putin's chum, Donald "Fake News" Trump, for making it such an easy job to casually dismiss news stories.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Long thread, but interesting…..

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Fascinating stuff, thanks!

 

[Triggaaar]

Very interesting thread.

It seems that they used news reports to fool the Russians that the fuel was getting through.

Now this to me raises the question about Polish MIG fighters.

I read rumours that some had already been repainted in Ukrainian colours and used a few weeks ago. But this was at odds with the constant ongoing calls for the jets to be supplied. Is this another trick and they already have some of them ?

If the West wanted to give the jets in secret, wouldn't it have just been better to give them and never mention them in the first place?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Russians state that Ukraine are staging the images of murdered civilians and atrocities.

They have apparently been giving humanitarian aid to civilians and Ukraine are trying to undermine peace talks whilst escalating violence.

NOTHING other than the removal/assassination/ sudden death of Putin is going to bring this murderous genocide to an end

I agree. Why would Ukraine desecrate their own cemeteries?

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[PILTDOWN MAN]

Harsh, but fair Clamp.

I would also insist that every week on the same day and at the same time they are attacked by a pack of angry dogs and their wounds
treated only to keep them alive.

I would have his limbs surgically removed and every day show him his rotting parts. Then when they are well rotted fed him them.

Sadistic but a fitting end to the *******.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

If the West wanted to give the jets in secret, wouldn't it have just been better to give them and never mention them in the first place?

I suspect that might have happened but obviously have not seen it with my own eyes.

 

[essbee1]

I would have his limbs surgically removed and every day show him his rotting parts. Then when they are well rotted fed him them.

Sadistic but a fitting end to the *******.

That would make Sweeney Todd look like an angel.

 

[Icy Gull]

This all beggars belief, if we are to believe the footage and photos we are seeing. I haven’t yet met a Russian I liked and I have found them rude and arrogant but this is all a bit sub human to me ��

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Asides from the obvious brutality. Isn't the Russians doing this the height of stupidity?

On seeing these reports, western governments will continue to come under huge pressure to supply arms and support to Ukraine. Governments such as China and India will find their positions harder to justify and the Ukranians have not one incentive to surrender. They may as well die trying to resist

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

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[Blue Valkyrie]

Asides from the obvious brutality. Isn't the Russians doing this the height of stupidity?

On seeing these reports, western governments will continue to come under huge pressure to supply arms and support to Ukraine. Governments such as China and India will find their positions harder to justify and the Ukranians have not one incentive to surrender. They may as well die trying to resist

The whole invasion made no sense. So little to gain, so much to lose.

I suppose it could have "worked" if Kyiv had fallen in hours, and the Ukrainians had welcomed the Russians with flowers.

So that suggests the calculation to invade was based on really bad information fed up the command chain.

Of course the corrupt siphoning off of the budget intended to recruit political agents in Ukraine, and corrupt commanders pretending to pay 500 soldiers in a unit but only paying 400 and keeping the rest, armoured vehicle parts/fuel being sold off etc. etc. lead to strategic thinking being undermined by total corruption down the chain.

I expect that some armoured vehicles that were "working" on the spreadsheet but useless in reality have been shipped into Ukraine to cover up some of the corruption. "Better make sure those 10 'working' tanks we said we had are lost in Ukraine, Sergey".

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

The whole invasion made no sense. So little to gain, so much to lose.

I suppose it could have "worked" if Kyiv had fallen in hours, and the Ukrainians had welcomed the Russians with flowers.

So that suggests the calculation to invade was based on really bad information fed up the command chain.

Of course the corrupt siphoning off of the budget intended to recruit political agents in Ukraine, and corrupt commanders pretending to pay 500 soldiers in a unit but only paying 400 and keeping the rest, armoured vehicle parts/fuel being sold off etc. etc. lead to strategic thinking being undermined by total corruption down the chain.

Well yes the whole thing makes no sense to me, but I mean specifically murdering civilians. It gains them absolutely nothing.

 

[Pavilionaire]

This is such a hard situation to make sense of, or to predict how it will end.

I cannot see how Putin can suppress the truth about the military blunders and human atrocities in Ukraine, particularly as there as so many people inter-married, Russians in Ukraine and Ukrainians in Russia. Then there are tens of thousands of grieving Russian parents who have lost sons in combat. You'd expect once sanctions really bite those people couldn't get any lower and so an uprising of the people could happen. There are also many in the Russian military who will fear the repercussions of a failed mission and they may think they have nothing to lose by supporting a coup. However, Putin has surrounded himself with layers of protection so appears almost untouchable.. I think the key will be getting access to someone in Putin's inner circle who may be prepared to turn against him.

We saw similar human atrocities in the Balkan wars 30 years ago, although the destruction of infrastructure in Ukraine is on a different level altogether.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Well yes the whole thing makes no sense to me, but I mean specifically murdering civilians. It gains them absolutely nothing.

I've given up trying to figure that out. It has no tactical or strategic gain.

Just evil.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

This is such a hard situation to make sense of, or to predict how it will end.

I cannot see how Putin can suppress the truth about the military blunders and human atrocities in Ukraine, particularly as there as so many people inter-married, Russians in Ukraine and Ukrainians in Russia. Then there are tens of thousands of grieving Russian parents who have lost sons in combat. You'd expect once sanctions really bite those people couldn't get any lower and so an uprising of the people could happen. There are also many in the Russian military who will fear the repercussions of a failed mission and they may think they have nothing to lose by supporting a coup. However, Putin has surrounded himself with layers of protection so appears almost untouchable.. I think the key will be getting access to someone in Putin's inner circle who may be prepared to turn against him.

We saw similar human atrocities in the Balkan wars 30 years ago, although the destruction of infrastructure in Ukraine is on a different level altogether.

A Lithuanian-Russian I know in the UK ( who has always loved Putin a little too much for my liking ) is now saying that anyone here who believes the stories coming out of Ukraine is "brainwashed".

We are the brainwashed ones !

Christ.


So I hold out very little hope for Russian society right now.