[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[beorhthelm]

One of the interviews with captured Russian soldiers had a much more sinister version in which the severely wounded were being killed by squads in the field. The rationale being that Putin didn't want these people returning to their families and being seen back at home.

It sounds very much like propaganda but it does hold a kernel of truth. Even in his height of popularity the injured coming back from Chechen and Georgia caused domestic issues for him.

of course it is, part of the demonisation and mythologising Russia as the eviliest people since, well since Stalinist soviet Russia. this types of practice would ruin morale and not help an already stretched army.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

of course it is, part of the demonisation and mythologising Russia as the eviliest people since, well since Stalinist soviet Russia. this types of practice would ruin morale and not help an already stretched army.

How do you know ? By the way I am not giving a view either way but that’s because I do not have your certainty.

 

[beorhthelm]

How do you know ? By the way I am not giving a view either way but that’s because I do not have your certainty.

like i say would be massively counterproductive. or you think soliders would be happy to know of the pracitce and hang around until their turn?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

like i say would be massively counterproductive. or you think soliders would be happy to know of the pracitce and hang around until their turn?

But that doesn’t make it untrue

 

[Eric the meek]

But that doesn’t make it untrue

I've no idea whether it is true or untrue, that Russians kill their severely wounded troops in the field to save the cost and 'poor visuals' of transporting them home to their families.
It may be propaganda, or it may be true.

But what I do know is:

1) the BBC report from several Russian regions, that the bereaved wives and mothers of fallen soldiers, have been told by local officials, not to make a fuss. This may be a clue.
2) Every time I have looked at a report and thought 'they wouldn't do that, would they?', I have been left open-mouthed. Yes, they would.

Who needs propaganda when you've got Russians committing war crimes on a daily basis?

 

[Eric the meek]

Latest in the information war - 'Putin feels misled by his military advisers, White House says'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60923158 21:05

The White House says it has intelligence that Russian President Vladimir Putin feels he has been misled by his military advisers, which has resulted in persistent tension between him and his military leadership.

"We believe that Putin is being misinformed by his advisers about how badly the Russian military is performing and how the Russian economy is being crippled by sanctions, because his senior advisers are too afraid to tell him the truth," White House director of communications Kate Bedingfield told journalists.
She said it was "increasingly clear" that Russia's invasion of Ukraine had been a "strategic blunder" that would leave it weaker over the long term.
Bedingfield also said the US had "continued to see evidence today of Russia attacking and advancing in places where they had previously said they would not".
Russia said on Tuesday it would reduce military operations around the capital Kyiv and the northern city of Chernihiv in order to focus on the eastern Donbas region, but local officials said attacks continued overnight in Chernihiv.'

 

[dazzer6666]

Oops….

[tweet]1509287796065845250[/tweet]

…..and another win for the tractors

[tweet]1509250301865467912[/tweet]

 

[Yoda]

Another oops

According to reports, Russian troops have accidently shot down one of their own planes my mistake.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Oops….

[tweet]1509287796065845250[/tweet]

…..and another win for the tractors

[tweet]1509250301865467912[/tweet]

Oops indeed.

They clearly hadn't watched the mini series.

On the plus side they have now left Ukraine.

 

[essbee1]

Someone needs to tell Putin that his army is a joke and the world's laughing stock.

 

[Eric the meek]

IF Russian troops have developed acute radiation sickness after digging trenches in the Red Forest, at least one of the following, or possibly all four, had to have happened.

1) They didn't know where they were and thought they were attacking just another target.
2) They didn't fully understand the dangers at Chernobyl, or possibly hadn't even heard of it.
3) They were ordered to dig in, whether or not the commanding officer knew of the dangers.
4) Once they had dug in, no-one higher up the command chain told them to leave until now, over a month later.

 

[dazzer6666]

Interesting thread

[tweet]1509424128444534788[/tweet]

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Interesting thread

[tweet]1509424128444534788[/tweet]

That thread ties in well with this :

[Tweet]1509422477553934338[/Tweet]

 

[herecomesaregular]

Latest in the information war - 'Putin feels misled by his military advisers, White House says'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60923158 21:05

The White House says it has intelligence that Russian President Vladimir Putin feels he has been misled by his military advisers, which has resulted in persistent tension between him and his military leadership.

"We believe that Putin is being misinformed by his advisers about how badly the Russian military is performing and how the Russian economy is being crippled by sanctions, because his senior advisers are too afraid to tell him the truth," White House director of communications Kate Bedingfield told journalists.
She said it was "increasingly clear" that Russia's invasion of Ukraine had been a "strategic blunder" that would leave it weaker over the long term.
Bedingfield also said the US had "continued to see evidence today of Russia attacking and advancing in places where they had previously said they would not".
Russia said on Tuesday it would reduce military operations around the capital Kyiv and the northern city of Chernihiv in order to focus on the eastern Donbas region, but local officials said attacks continued overnight in Chernihiv.'

I still don't understand how Putin can resist a little Google, a quick read of the BBC News website even. Surely, he must be a bit curious or is he like my mum and using the mouse on the screen itself to try to get it to work. Bizarre.

 

[Brovion]

IF Russian troops have developed acute radiation sickness after digging trenches in the Red Forest, at least one of the following, or possibly all four, had to have happened.

1) They didn't know where they were and thought they were attacking just another target.
2) They didn't fully understand the dangers at Chernobyl, or possibly hadn't even heard of it.
3) They were ordered to dig in, whether or not the commanding officer knew of the dangers.
4) Once they had dug in, no-one higher up the command chain told them to leave until now, over a month later.

That's the positive spin. Or the Russians may say that the radiation sickness is 'proof' that Ukraine has used some kind of nuclear device.

 

[Eric the meek]

I still don't understand how Putin can resist a little Google, a quick read of the BBC News website even. Surely, he must be a bit curious or is he like my mum and using the mouse on the screen itself to try to get it to work. Bizarre.

Who knows what goes on in Putin's head?

He has comprehensively lost his own information war, and his decision making has been off-the-scale dreadful for a long while now.

A part of me thinks he may judge others, especially western leaders, by his own low standards of behaviour, so he may expect lies, deceit, disinformation, fake news etc to emanate from the west, in which case he might not bother to even read it, except to use it to scoff at and share the joke with the handful of Kremlin loyalists he still trusts. But I'm just guessing.

 

[Albion in the north]

IF Russian troops have developed acute radiation sickness after digging trenches in the Red Forest, at least one of the following, or possibly all four, had to have happened.

1) They didn't know where they were and thought they were attacking just another target.
2) They didn't fully understand the dangers at Chernobyl, or possibly hadn't even heard of it.
3) They were ordered to dig in, whether or not the commanding officer knew of the dangers.
4) Once they had dug in, no-one higher up the command chain told them to leave until now, over a month later.

Number 2 is most likely. Chernobyl was not widely reported in USSR at the time and was seen as the start of the break up of the Soviet Union.

 

[MJsGhost]

Apologies if posted on this thread (or elsewhere), but I haven't seen it on NSC.

10 minutes of damning information (much of which I'd seen/read elsewhere, but seeing it all together makes it even more powerful)

[tweet] 1509414334828589059 [/tweet]

 

[Bry Nylon]

Regarding the above post; I'm not sure if this is the thread for it, so I may move it to another thread in time if it derails this one. This thread is specifically focused on the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the above has real potential to take this thread into the familiar rabbit hole of UK domestic tribal politics. I don't have an issue with the post itself - just the likely direction it could take an excellent thread in. (Although BBC4, Newsnight and Channel 4 have all produced far more balanced and corroborated assessments of the Putin regime in recent weeks for people interested in this stuff rather than a social media account called Led By Donkeys).

So if anyone does want to debate this stuff, maybe find another more suitable thread or use one of the ones now languishing in the Bear Pit. Just for the purposes of fair disclosure, anyone that feels compelled to take this thread off track will join those already unable to post on it. Thanks.

 

[beorhthelm]

Apologies if posted on this thread (or elsewhere), but I haven't seen it on NSC.

10 minutes of damning information (much of which I'd seen/read elsewhere, but seeing it all together makes it even more powerful)

is it retreading relations with a couple of Russian-British donors (Lebedev and Chernukhin), made suspicious on basis of nationality?

elsewhere, UK shipped thousands of anti-tank weapons and provided training and intelligence to Ukraine past couple of years.