[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[raymondo]

Do more good to go to the border and offer to house refugees as the Polish are doing in huge numbers.

Of course that pre-supposes they could get visas to enter the UK

Ridiculous only allowing those with family into the UK and that’s only possible after jumping through God knows how many hoops.

Anyone with a Ukraine passport or ID should be let in.

and it's only CLOSE family at the moment...

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Thanks for the sensible reply. I agree, I think it's probably because its closer to home, but also the level of media coverage. Maybe it's the risk of what happens if it escalates due to the players involved.

Then perhaps you could have said so yourself rather than ask a leading question to which you know the answer.

 

[Seaview Seagull]

Whilst Russian and Chinese news is clearly propagandist, It's very naïve to think that any side of any argument isn't brainwashed in the modern media world. Look at the states for example, right or left of politics have extreme media outlets and nothing trustworthy really in between. Not really much better here, media play up to the paymasters. I still don't really trust alot of the news coming from Ukraine from any outlet. Everyone has an agenda.

The problems in our media are not comparable with the Russians. At worst our media has a spectrum of views. Russians get the Putin view only. You are playing into Putin's agenda.

 

[portlock seagull]

It's fair to say we should have been collectively more horrified by Rohingya and Rwanda and Yemen.

That's not going to make me less horrified by Ukraine though

Maybe. However this is a European country. A sovereign power. NATO neighbour. Being invaded and destroyed by a Nuclear power and old enemy. That makes it far easier for us to resonate with than internal or proxy wars on different continents, which sadly happen all too frequently due to tribal divisions. If Brazil invaded Uruguay, you’d expect S.American countries to intervene before anyone else.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Not odd at all. He said how upset it was making him, and I am interested if there is something about this scenario that is creating more upset than similar events or not. I don't recall a similar thread on Syria.

You've made me think about this.

I am furious about war and genocide in Europe. Fury beyond the links I have with Ukraine.

I was furious about Bosnia and Srebrenica.

I was sad about Syria, and no doubt will be sad when China attacks Taiwan.

But my fury is reserved for Europe.

That's just the way I am.

 

[vegster]

I'm not saying I'm doubting the reports, but as soon as a war breaks it seems like one side always claims hospitals / schools / kindergartens have been attacked? Why would any army target them? It would surely be counter-productive? Cities are big places with lots of buildings, so it seems unlikely they'd get hit by chance.

The Russians have form for targeting schools and hospitals in Syria. Its about destroying morale and the will to fight back.

They would claim that rebel Syrians were attacking each other or it was a tragic mistake or that rebels had a command centre there or had Artillery or AA adjacent so it became a target.
Markets were another target, just lob a dozen mortars in when people were desperately trying to get food.

 

[TomandJerry]

Russia has bombed a children's hospital:

Some 17 people have been wounded after a Russian airstrike reportedly hit a children’s hospital and maternity ward in the Ukrainian city of Mariupol this afternoon, the governor of Ukraine’s Donetsk region said.

 

[portlock seagull]

You've made me think about this.

I am furious about war and genocide in Europe. Fury beyond the links I have with Ukraine.

I was furious about Bosnia and Srebrenica.

I was sad about Syria, and no doubt will be sad when China attacks Taiwan.

But my fury is reserved for Europe.

That's just the way I am.

I think all of us need to channel our fury at Westminster. This is our government and therefore we can all do something about. Marches, letters to MPs, encourage friends and family to do same instead of the numerous but pitiful “it’s so sad” I keep hearing from most friends I speak to about. Where is the anger and the real drive to do something about in people? We need rousing the sand we like to bury our heads in. Nearly everyone I speak to thinks I’m mad for donating to the ukranian military, asking them to join me on a March, write to their MP etc.

 

[Poojah]

Out of interest, did you feel as bad when Syria was getting annihilated and entire cities levelled? I'm not meaning to be provocative, I'm genuinely intrigued why people (my friends at least) seem to be way more upset now than during other recent events that were equally bad or worse.

It’s a fair question, and I won’t duck it. Of course I found what happened in Syria upsetting, but there are some differences, both in the situation itself and personally. Firstly, one way or another the war in Syria had domestic roots; Ukraine was a happy, prosperous nation which is now being ripped to shreds by its neighbour under completely false pretences.

When the war started in Syria, I was younger, more care-free and, crucially, not then a parent. I was definitely a much less sensitive and less mature person back then. Add to that, I don’t think coverage was quite as wall-to-wall as this, nor was social media such a profound medium in those days.

But let me get this out of the way, I do think there is something in the fact that I can relate better to the people of Ukraine than the people of Syria. I don’t mean because of the colour of their skin, but because our values, our lifestyles, the cities in which we live, are more similar. The photos of children lying dead in the street look like my children; they’re dressed like my children. So on an unconscious level, it hits deeper. The fact I’ve been to Kyiv makes it feel more real.

Maybe some will criticise me for that view; a life is a life is a life. I just think it’s human nature that things resonate with you more when you can associate better with the people involved.

Then, and maybe this is selfish, there is the potential for this to escalate into something much bigger. I don’t want my children to grow up (or worse still not grow up), in a war torn country. They’re way too innocent for that. But then that takes me back to the children of Ukraine, who are no less innocent, no less sensitive than mine. And so my head spins from there.

So yeah, this has affected me more than any other conflict that has taken place during my lifetime.

 

[peterward]

I'm not saying I'm doubting the reports, but as soon as a war breaks it seems like one side always claims hospitals / schools / kindergartens have been attacked? Why would any army target them? It would surely be counter-productive? Cities are big places with lots of buildings, so it seems unlikely they'd get hit by chance.

It 100% is happening. You're a normal moral person, unfortunately the Soviet/Russian military doctrine contains the "anaconda" which sees targetting civilian areas with indiscriminate shelling and putting all civilians under siege to starve them, as part of their way to try and cause capitulation


See Grozny and Aleppo. It's inhumane but this is how the Russians have acted for years

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Out of interest, did you feel as bad when Syria was getting annihilated and entire cities levelled? I'm not meaning to be provocative, I'm genuinely intrigued why people (my friends at least) seem to be way more upset now than during other recent events that were equally bad or worse.

It'd probably be better to ask them than a random stranger on the internet. If you were genuinely intrigued. You might even find it more illuminating if you read up on the subject. If you were genuinely interested.

Not odd at all. He said how upset it was making him, and I am interested if there is something about this scenario that is creating more upset than similar events or not. I don't recall a similar thread on Syria.

Why didn't you start one? Or don't you care enough about any people being butchered, murdered, blown up and annihilated, regardless of where they're from? You're just interested in why people are more interested in one conflict than another even if you don't care about any of them?

More judgmental people than me might find that a bit strange.

 

[Dibdab]

You've made me think about this.

I am furious about war and genocide in Europe. Fury beyond the links I have with Ukraine.

I was furious about Bosnia and Srebrenica.

I was sad about Syria, and no doubt will be sad when China attacks Taiwan.

But my fury is reserved for Europe.

That's just the way I am.

That’s really honest and I think most people are the same. I think some people are ashamed to admit that’s how they feel thought

 

[Dibdab]

It'd probably be better to ask them than a random stranger on the internet. If you were genuinely intrigued. You might even find it more illuminating if you read up on the subject. If you were genuinely interested.



Why didn't you start one? Or don't you care enough about any people being butchered, murdered, blown up and annihilated, regardless of where they're from? You're just interested in why people are more interested in one conflict than another even if you don't care about any of them?

More judgmental people than me might find that a bit strange.

Why are you so angry?

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

That’s really honest and I think most people are the same. I think some people are ashamed to admit that’s how they feel thought

You could have just said that from the outset

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Why are you so angry?

 

[Dibdab]

It’s a fair question, and I won’t duck it. Of course I found what happened in Syria upsetting, but there are some differences, both in the situation itself and personally. Firstly, one way or another the war in Syria had domestic roots; Ukraine was a happy, prosperous nation which is now being ripped to shreds by its neighbour under completely false pretences.

When the war started in Syria, I was younger, more care-free and, crucially, not then a parent. I was definitely a much less sensitive and less mature person back then. Add to that, I don’t think coverage was quite as wall-to-wall as this, nor was social media such a profound medium in those days.

But let me get this out of the way, I do think there is something in the fact that I can relate better to the people of Ukraine than the people of Syria. I don’t mean because of the colour of their skin, but because our values, our lifestyles, the cities in which we live, are more similar. The photos of children lying dead in the street look like my children; they’re dressed like my children. So on an unconscious level, it hits deeper. The fact I’ve been to Kyiv makes it feel more real.

Maybe some will criticise me for that view; a life is a life is a life. I just think it’s human nature that things resonate with you more when you can associate better with the people involved.

Then, and maybe this is selfish, there is the potential for this to escalate into something much bigger. I don’t want my children to grow up (or worse still not grow up), in a war torn country. They’re way too innocent for that. But then that takes me back to the children of Ukraine, who are no less innocent, no less sensitive than mine. And so my head spins from there.

So yeah, this has affected me more than any other conflict that has taken place during my lifetime.

Great open and honest reply. I suspect similar to most people in the West. I also think the Media has alot of influence. Interesting you were able to answer maturely where others just get triggered and aggressive on your behalf.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Great open and honest reply. I suspect similar to most people in the West. I also think the Media has alot of influence. Interesting you were able to answer maturely where others just get triggered and aggressive on your behalf.

As you have pointed out ‘similar to most people in the West’, so not sure why you asked it? Perhaps you’d care to comment on putinks behaviour in Ukraine, Syria and Georgia amongst others?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[atomised]

Why are you so angry?

Am I missing something or have you quoted the wrong post. Doesn't seem angry to me

 

[Half Time Pies]

Out of interest, did you feel as bad when Syria was getting annihilated and entire cities levelled? I'm not meaning to be provocative, I'm genuinely intrigued why people (my friends at least) seem to be way more upset now than during other recent events that were equally bad or worse.

Im genuinely intrigued why you are intrigued and as the answer is so obvious I'm fairly certain that its a leading question!

Because this conflict is on our doorstep, it's potentially a return to the cold war, threat of nuclear war. Of course it therefore makes people feel bad as we are closer to the conflict, it's more real as it potentially affects us directly. our communities, our families and our children. Some people on here have friends and relatives in Ukraine and in Eastern Europe and anyone over the age of 35 will remember the cold war. It's the same reason why people get more upset about crime within their own communities even though there are no doubt worse things happening elsewhere. its perfectly understandable.

 

[Eric the meek]

Why are you so angry?

Shouldn't you be asking that question of the legions of Russian state employees, huddled up in icy call centres and office blocks in St. Petersburg and Moscow, who if they are lucky enough to still actually have a job, will soon find that their meagre wages will only buy half of what they did a fortnight ago?