[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Deportivo Seagull]

Putin has fired his defence chief.....has the internal rebellion started?

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Now that is very interesting …. I reckon the voices of dissent are being raised. He rules by fear which means he has no real friends, when times are tough you need the backing of your friends.


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[Deportivo Seagull]

No one is suggesting we give in; I’m saying I believe we are correct not to directly intervene militarily in Ukraine right at this moment. Do you genuinely believe we should?

No because we can cause more issues by doing it covertly. He raised the question because of the use of sanctions. Interestingly not a NATO driven tactic.


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[rogersix]

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Our brave PM on the front line (*front line at Brize Norton)

(Original tweet)

phew......... it's over, we won

 

[Poojah]

No because we can cause more issues by doing it covertly. He raised the question because of the use of sanctions. Interestingly not a NATO driven tactic.


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I have no issue whatsoever with sanctions; of course we have to be seen to be challenging what’s happening. My original point was simply that Putin will ratchet up the scale of military aggression in Ukraine until he is successful. If for instance that led to the widespread use of chemical weapons, that creates a situation whereby the west may be more obliged to intervene.

Intervention will lead to nuclear war. Honestly, who wants that?

 

[TomandJerry]

Vitali Klitschko, Kyiv’s mayor and former world heavyweight boxing champion, has described the Ukraine capital as “encircled” and said a civilian evacuation would not be possible “because all ways are blocked”.

“We are at the border of a humanitarian catastrophe,” he told Associated Press on Sunday as a curfew continued in the city which he said allowed authorities to hunt “saboteurs” on the streets. “Right now, we have electricity, right now we have water and heating in our houses. But the infrastructure is destroyed to deliver the food and medication.”

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[TomandJerry]

I have no issue whatsoever with sanctions; of course we have to be seen to be challenging what’s happening. My original point was simply that Putin will ratchet up the scale of military aggression in Ukraine until he is successful. If for instance that led to the widespread use of chemical weapons, that creates a situation whereby the west may be more obliged to intervene.

Intervention will lead to nuclear war. Honestly, who wants that?

Does the West let Russia use chemical weapons in Ukraine to avoid a nuclear fall out?

Tough question..

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[Poojah]

Does the West let Russia use chemical weapons in Ukraine to avoid a nuclear fall out?

Tough question..

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It is, and this is the crux of the issue. The west wants to avoid nuclear war by keeping out of the Ukraine crisis in the military sense, and Putin is is taking full advantage of this. Just how far is he prepared to go, and where is the tipping point?

Ukraine is the centre of the world right now, for reasons it would never have wanted.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

This isn’t about me taking the selfish or insular view from my (currently) safe and comfortable surroundings in Leeds; I’m speaking in terms of what’s in the best interest of hundreds of millions of people around the world who’s lives could be destroyed or ended by nuclear war.

All it will take for that to happen is direct conflict between Russian and NATO forces for that to happen. We are doing what can in terms of sanctions, but getting involved militarily at this stage would be catastrophic. That of course won’t sit well with the Ukrainian people, but this situation is not of the west’s making - it has to try and make the best hands of the cards it has been dealt and right now that means leaving Ukraine to fend for itself.

It is though. Would you surrender your freedoms for the rest of the world ? The answer is you wouldn’t so you shouldn’t expect the Ukrainians to do so.

 

[jakarta]

Looks like next week could be interesting as they starting losing millions, does the Russian Mafia have the equivalent of the 1922 Committee?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60543994

 

[vegster]

Does the West let Russia use chemical weapons in Ukraine to avoid a nuclear fall out?

Tough question..

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Use of chemical weapons is a War Crime surely?

 

[TomandJerry]

Use of chemical weapons is a War Crime surely?

It is. But will they react and risk causing nuclear fall out?

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[Hugo Rune]

Will the government step up and drop all visa requirements for Ukrainian refugees? The Polish have been very hospitable but more needs to be done.

Who would let a Ukrainian family stay with them whilst this war persists?

 

[A1X]

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Lots of talk this is a much-vaunted Chechen column of Russian armour. Or at least, it was.

 

[The Andy Naylor Fan Club]

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[The Andy Naylor Fan Club]

[tweet]1497994136732983317[/tweet]

Lots of talk this is a much-vaunted Chechen column of Russian armour. Or at least, it was.

Jeez. The BBC have just shown footage of a drone strike on the Russians, is this video of the aftermath?

 

[dangull]

I may be wrong, but think this military offensive is going badly for Russia.

Surely, its only time when they sue for peace, and have their propaganda say they have achieved their objectives.

 

[Poojah]

It is though. Would you surrender your freedoms for the rest of the world ? The answer is you wouldn’t so you shouldn’t expect the Ukrainians to do so.

I don’t expect them to do so. I have nothing but admiration and respect for what they are doing to save the sovereignty by of their nation and their freedom, and I fully understand that Ukrainians will not judge the west well for its lack of meaningful intervention.

But governments ultimately have to have their own people at heart when they make decisions. If stepping in now meant that the biggest nuclear bomb ever detonated was dropped on London, or Manchester, or Birmingham, or Liverpool, or Leeds, that would not equate to good decision making.

I’ll need to review my original post as it’s not been interpreted the way I intended it; not only by you, but by others too so I’ll hold my hands up there - it’s clearly my mistake. To condense my argument though; the greater resistance Putin faces, the greater his response. The greater his response, the greater the chance of a flare up between Russia and NATO. The greater chance of a flare up between those two parties, the greater the chance of global thermonuclear war. In that sense, and in that sense only, an easier victory for Putin more likely leads to better outcomes for the planet as a whole.

Of course, I don’t expect Ukrainians to see it that way. If I were them, I would want help from the world’s military powers in the here and now. But for the reasons above, it’s not coming any time soon.

 

[Springal]

[tweet]1497994136732983317[/tweet]

Lots of talk this is a much-vaunted Chechen column of Russian armour. Or at least, it was.

Surely Ukrainian Air Force / drones haven’t done this ? Wonder who did … must have been horrific to perish in that

 

[Eric the meek]

Breaking news on the consistently excellent BBC:

'Sweden to send arms to Ukraine'.

P.S. Sweden is neutral. Or it was!

 

[rogersix]

I don’t expect them to do so. I have nothing but admiration and respect for what they are doing to save the sovereignty by of their nation and their freedom, and I fully understand that Ukrainians will not judge the west well for its lack of meaningful intervention.

But governments ultimately have to have their own people at heart when they make decisions. If stepping in now meant that the biggest nuclear bomb ever detonated was dropped on London, or Manchester, or Birmingham, or Liverpool, or Leeds, that would not equate to good decision making.

I’ll need to review my original post as it’s not been interpreted the way I intended it; not only by you, but by others too so I’ll hold my hands up there - it’s clearly my mistake. To condense my argument though; the greater resistance Putin faces, the greater his response. The greater his response, the greater the chance of a flare up between Russia and NATO. The greater chance of a flare up between those two parties, the greater the chance of global thermonuclear war. In that sense, and in that sense only, an easier victory for Putin more likely leads to better outcomes for the planet as a whole.

Of course, I don’t expect Ukrainians to see it that way. If I were them, I would want help from the world’s military powers in the here and now. But for the reasons above, it’s not coming any time soon.

the russians left afghanistan without a nuclear war