[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[raymondo]

On the Ten O'clock news last night Steve Rosenberg presented a piece about an event he was invited to in the Kremlin. Putin had invited the great & the good of Russia and it was held in a massive room which was basically covered in gold. Putin made a speak & the BBC showed a short clip where he talked about the attacks on border towns. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when Putin complained about civilian areas being targeted followed by 'we don't do things like that'. Trouble is most Russians believe him.
Thought the piece would be on the BBC website but it isn't.

Good spot, thanks for the heads-up

 

[raymondo]

I saw that broadcast as well. The gold covered doors to the room must have been a good two storeys high. Ridiculously ostentatious wealth plundered from the 'republics' within the Russian Federation.

I loved the way Margarita Simonyan changed from pleasant to irritated in an instant:

Rosenberg: 'Was there a serious challenger in the election? A serious opponent?'
Simonyan: 'Is there a need for a serious opponent? Why?'
Rosenberg: 'Why is there no need for a serious opponent?'
Simonyan: 'Why do you always think that the way you live is better than the way we live? The way you ask questions - 'why don't
you do it the way we do it?' Because we are not you and we don't like you much really'.

Thanks for the laughable interview excerpt!! Do you feel Rosenberg is getting close to crossing the line? maybe he's had enough of Moscow, is aiming for retirement, and will call them out even more .
Well done, Steve.

 

[essbee1]

Thanks for the laughable interview excerpt!! Do you feel Rosenberg is getting close to crossing the line? maybe he's had enough of Moscow, is aiming for retirement, and will call them out even more .
Well done, Steve.

If I'd been Steve in answer to the "we don't like you much really" I'd have said "well, good, because we happen to think you lot (the Putin lapdogs)
are a bunch of f******g wa*kstains".

 

[Eric the meek]

Yes, that's good, and hopefully Russia will find it even harder to find other vessels to export their oil.
India have played a tricky game, both sides.

I've been distinctly unimpressed with India. While I understand they want Russian oil at a knockdown sanction price, much of their output on Youtube (Wion, Hindustan Times and others) have been pro-Russian throughout, to the extent of rejoicing in Ukraine's suffering. It's the sort of output you would expect to see from a rogue nation like Iran.

 

[Eric the meek]

Thanks for the laughable interview excerpt!! Do you feel Rosenberg is getting close to crossing the line? maybe he's had enough of Moscow, is aiming for retirement, and will call them out even more .
Well done, Steve.

I think he did a superb job. We know he has to tread a very careful line, but he still manages to gets invited to lavish occasions like the one in the interview. And when he does, by putting a fair question back at her, he manages to skewer Margarita Simonyan, head of RT, while still avoiding any criticism that might be construed to be against the law.

Absolutely brilliant.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I saw that broadcast as well. The gold covered doors to the room must have been a good two storeys high. Ridiculously ostentatious wealth plundered from the 'republics' within the Russian Federation.

I loved the way Margarita Simonyan changed from pleasant to irritated in an instant:

Rosenberg: 'Was there a serious challenger in the election? A serious opponent?'
Simonyan: 'Is there a need for a serious opponent? Why?'
Rosenberg: 'Why is there no need for a serious opponent?'
Simonyan: 'Why do you always think that the way you live is better than the way we live? The way you ask questions - 'why don't
you do it the way we do it?' Because we are not you and we don't like you much really'.

But this is sort of a revealing insight to the Russian psyche isn't it? And probably not just Russian, Chinese, Indian and much of the global south.

A feeling that the US and rich European countries want to impose their way of doing things and sneer at them when they don't. A feeling that the west thinks they are superior to them. It's a feeling that key western values like democracy, the rule of law and the respect for human rights is not something that can be imposed on them from the outside.

I detest the woman, and obviously I detest Russia, but even if Putin is defeated Putinism will still continue. At some point we've got to make a play for hearts and minds outside the anglosphere. We'll have to try to at least understand where they are coming from

 

[essbee1]

But this is sort of a revealing insight to the Russian psyche isn't it? And probably not just Russian, Chinese, Indian and much of the global south.

A feeling that the US and rich European countries want to impose their way of doing things and sneer at them when they don't. A feeling that the west thinks they are superior to them. It's a feeling that key western values like democracy, the rule of law and the respect for human rights is not something that can be imposed on them from the outside.

I detest the woman, and obviously I detest Russia, but even if Putin is defeated Putinism will still continue. At some point we've got to make a play for hearts and minds outside the anglosphere. We'll have to try to at least understand where they are coming from

I have a friend in China who moved there 20 years ago. Originally from Notts. It's staggering the shit that he spouts
about Russia etc and is clearly brainwashed by the one-sided media there. He also supports Leeds which means when
he's not spouting bollox about Russia, he's spouting entitled horseshit about football.

 

[raymondo]

I've been distinctly unimpressed with India. While I understand they want Russian oil at a knockdown sanction price, much of their output on Youtube (Wion, Hindustan Times and others) have been pro-Russian throughout, to the extent of rejoicing in Ukraine's suffering. It's the sort of output you would expect to see from a rogue nation like Iran.

And they congratulated Putin immediately on his victory.

 

[Insel affe]

I had a friend in China who moved there 20 years ago. Originally from Notts. It's staggering the shit that he spouts
about Russia etc and is clearly brainwashed by the one-sided media there. He also supports Leeds which means when
he's not spouting bollox about Russia, he's spouting entitled horseshit about football.

Carefully edited for you.

 

[Eric the meek]

But this is sort of a revealing insight to the Russian psyche isn't it? And probably not just Russian, Chinese, Indian and much of the global south.

A feeling that the US and rich European countries want to impose their way of doing things and sneer at them when they don't. A feeling that the west thinks they are superior to them. It's a feeling that key western values like democracy, the rule of law and the respect for human rights is not something that can be imposed on them from the outside.

I detest the woman, and obviously I detest Russia, but even if Putin is defeated Putinism will still continue. At some point we've got to make a play for hearts and minds outside the anglosphere. We'll have to try to at least understand where they are coming from

It was a fascinating little tableau.

Let's look at it again.

Rosenberg: 'Was there a serious challenger in the election? A serious opponent?'
Simonyan: 'Is there a need for a serious opponent? Why?'
Rosenberg: 'Why is there no need for a serious opponent?'
Simonyan: 'Why do you always think that the way you live is better than the way we live? The way you ask questions - 'why don't
you do it the way we do it?' Because we are not you and we don't like you much really'.

Simonyan, in role as a mouthpiece of Putin, won't be used to Anglo-Saxon journalists from the free world asking an innocuous question, then bypassing her attempt to put him on the back foot, instead asking her the obvious question that her first answer invited.

She will be much more used to people being subservient, obsequious nodding donkeys. Hence the irritation.

Btw, your last paragraph is paramount in the west winning the peace. Easier said than done of course.

 

[raymondo]

But this is sort of a revealing insight to the Russian psyche isn't it? And probably not just Russian, Chinese, Indian and much of the global south.

A feeling that the US and rich European countries want to impose their way of doing things and sneer at them when they don't. A feeling that the west thinks they are superior to them. It's a feeling that key western values like democracy, the rule of law and the respect for human rights is not something that can be imposed on them from the outside.

I detest the woman, and obviously I detest Russia, but even if Putin is defeated Putinism will still continue. At some point we've got to make a play for hearts and minds outside the anglosphere. We'll have to try to at least understand where they are coming from

But I think the main reason Rosenberg is asking these questions is because Russia invaded Ukraine and would love to wipe Ukrainians off the map - so we have become deeply interested in who we're dealing with.
One place they're coming from IMO is they are very angry that most of the (now independent) former Soviet states (eg Ukraine, Baltics etc) want nothing to do with Russia, rightly fear them, and so have/want to join NATO.
Russia is an angry, war mongering, expansionist regime...and that's what I understand for now.

 

[Eric the meek]

But I think the main reason Rosenberg is asking these questions is because Russia invaded Ukraine and would love to wipe Ukrainians off the map - so we have become deeply interested in who we're dealing with.
One place they're coming from IMO is they are very angry that most of the (now independent) former Soviet states (eg Ukraine, Baltics etc) want nothing to do with Russia, rightly fear them, and so have/want to join NATO.
Russia is an angry, war mongering, expansionist regime...and that's what I understand for now.

And there is the small matter of if/when the elite lose their position or role, they stand to lose their lives.

 

[raymondo]

And there is the small matter of if/when the elite lose their position or role, they stand to lose their lives.

We live in hope

 

[Eric the meek]

I hesitate to post this, but as it is the subject of a lengthy article on Sky news, it is out there in the public domain:

'Russia gearing up for large-scale conflict with NATO'

Ukraine war latest: Russia ready to carry out 'massive attack', Ukraine warned - as Kyiv's defences 'crumble'

Moscow's missile and drone attack on Kyiv today could be the start of bigger attacks to come, a Ukrainian official has warned. And from the frontline in eastern Ukraine, international correspondent Stuart Ramsay says Kyiv's forces are "in trouble" - watch his report below.

news.sky.com

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I hesitate to post this, but as it is the subject of a lengthy article on Sky news, it is out there in the public domain:

'Russia gearing up for large-scale conflict with NATO'

Ukraine war latest: Russia ready to carry out 'massive attack', Ukraine warned - as Kyiv's defences 'crumble'

Moscow's missile and drone attack on Kyiv today could be the start of bigger attacks to come, a Ukrainian official has warned. And from the frontline in eastern Ukraine, international correspondent Stuart Ramsay says Kyiv's forces are "in trouble" - watch his report below.

news.sky.com

We must re-arm

 

[raymondo]

We must re-arm

Agreed. Some European countries are finally understanding this.

 

[Triggaaar]

'Russia gearing up for large-scale conflict with NATO'

Are they upping their production of gravestones?

 

[raymondo]

Are they upping their production of gravestones?

Remember... they mainly get stuffed into the mobile crematoria

 

[Triggaaar]

Remember... they mainly get stuffed into the mobile crematoria

Yeah, but families back home may like a stone to remember them by

 

[brighton_dave]

Nicely and subtle by Guro here.