[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[portslade seagull]

If you want a Ukraine update look at Ukraine Defence on Instagram

 

[Springal]

If it's the right thing to do there is an argument to say that we shouldn't worry too much about what it does to the economy. I'm sure the energy companies have lost a fair amount of money during the current blackouts in Ukranian cities, doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do.

Probably means further increase on energy costs - how will that go down here?

 

[Bold Seagull]

You’d be surprised that there really isn’t a threshold, most financial sanctions are drafted at an national interest level and are therefore very easy to legislate quickly.

Any person, entity, bank account or country can be subject to sanctions without charges being laid.

So what actually happens, is it that their assets are frozen, remaining their property but unable to use or access (whether money or physical property), or is there an actual process where assets are seized completely and effectively become the property of the UK treasury?

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

He’s not keen to bite the hand that feeds him!

UK wants to withdraw SWIFT

Germany, France and Italy don't.

We have a shit PM, but unfortunately the leaders of the most powerful European Nations are (perhaps understandably) more interested in keeping their citizens lights on than hurting Russia.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

You’d be surprised that there really isn’t a threshold, most financial sanctions are drafted at an national interest level and are therefore very easy to legislate quickly.

Any person, entity, bank account or country can be subject to sanctions without charges being laid.

Thank you. I remember you saying you worked in this area.

 

[Fred Oliver - Legend]

Best news channel for coverage?

 

[dazzer6666]

I’m not sure there is any burden of proof required for Governments. I used to work in the City and had regular training in AML and received lists of banned individuals and jurisdictions. The consequences of breaking these rules were made very clear. I don’t recall legal challenges to any of these rules. Perhaps any AML experts on here can correct me.

Yep……various bodies own and control the sanctions lists (eg OFAC in the US, HM Treasury in the UK etc) and global control rests on countries recognising and applying sanctions not just to their own lists but all the others. As soon as new sanctions are agreed (ie certain Russian companies/individuals yesterday for example) the ‘blacklists’ will be updated and the automated screening tools in the banks systems will spew out reports indicating any accounts and transactions that have connections (or potential connections). These are then investigated, and the transactions cancelled and accounts frozen and reported if a confirmed connection. The sanctioning body can ultimately agree to unfreeze payments/transactions.

The banks face colossal and damaging penalties if they allow sanctions lists to be breached and have invested enormous amounts of money on screening tools, training etc.

 

[Since1982]

UK wants to withdraw SWIFT

Germany, France and Italy don't.

We have a shit PM, but unfortunately the leaders of the most powerful European Nations are (perhaps understandably) more interested in keeping their citizens lights on than hurting Russia.

I thought I heard yesterday that there is some complexity to this - kick Russia out of Swift and they use "front" banks to retain access and it forces them to China who have a replacement system they want Russia to join.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

A Sky correspondent in Kharkiv currently on air with artillery fire happening in the background. Dramatic stuff.

 

[A1X]

Best news channel for coverage?

Depending on the time of day I've been flicking between Sky and CNN

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Best news channel for coverage?

Sky yesterday and this morning

 

[Eric the meek]

The demonstrations in Russia indicate that some Russians at least, are not reliant on the pro-invasion state controlled TV for their news.

They will be getting their news from somewhere else.

This is good news, as they will be seeing the stark differences between the two and sharing them with others. Long may it continue.

 

[A1X]

When even the Taliban are saying "seriously guys, bit much" it's not a great sign...

[tweet]1497118565421527041[/tweet]

 

[Baldseagull]

people seem to have bought in to a myth that Russia can only operate with help from Russians setting up business abroad. keep hearing how shell companies funnel money to the Kremlin. this ignores Russia is a large nation in control of its own resources, government and military. Putin doesnt need a ex-KGB man in London to get him a new Rolex, he orders one from Rolex website and DHL will deliver. there are banks and public companies across world funding and trading with the Russian banks and companies, all known, documented and legally OK. its outright weird that people obsess about overseas companies and properties of Russians, as if we cant believe or accept they became wealthy.

We can believe it, just can't accept that much of it was by legitimate means.

 

[Insel affe]

When even the Taliban are saying "seriously guys, bit much" it's not a great sign...

[tweet]1497118565421527041[/tweet]

is that real, jebus that is a sad state of affairs if real.

 

[beorhthelm]

We can believe it, just can't accept that much of it was by legitimate means.

what if it was/is legitimate in Russia? because we think they aquired some company or asset by some means we consider illegitimate, thats not to say that view applies in Russia. or even proves it was illegitmate by our standards. put another way, we've been happily trading with these companies for a few decades.

 

[peterward]

SWIFT for starters to essentially cut them out of worldwide money transmission, but that’s not down to Boris (alone) by a very long way.

That's True and highlights the difficulty in the EU decision making process when all need to agree.

UK, France, Holland and the US all pushing to cut from swift.

Germany, Italy, Cyprus blocking.

They could do a secret deal. 1 month. And see if it brings Putin to table, it did Iran.

Russian markets will go into a death spiral. Do it today before markets close

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

That's True and highlights the difficulty in the EU decision making process when all need to agree.

UK, France, Holland and the US all pushing to cut from swift.

Germany, Italy, Cyprus blocking

Big rift developing unfortunately.

https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-tusk-eu-capitals-disgraced-themselves/amp/

Germany, Hungary and Italy are guilty apparently of blocking tougher sanctions.

 

[TomandJerry]

Ukraine's Defence Force has just tweeted again, calling for all civilians to join regardless of their age - even if they're minors, presumably.

The statement, attributed to the Commander of Troops, Yuri Galushkin, reads:

"Today, Ukraine needs everything. All procedures for joining are simplified.

"Bring only your passport and identification number.

"There are no age restrictions."It tells people if they face problems signing up, they just need to refer to this official tweet.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Bold Seagull]

That's True and highlights the difficulty in the EU decision making process when all need to agree.

UK, France, Holland and the US all pushing to cut from swift.

Germany, Italy, Cyprus blocking

Whether part of a political union or not, getting however many countries to agree is never easy. I suspect it would be even more difficult if all the countries were outside a political union than in it.