Russia losing the support of China is a big deal.
China knows what side it’s bread is buttered.
China knows what side it’s bread is buttered.
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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)
- Thread starter vegster
- Start date
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,134
Indeed. Russia needs China.
But evidently China doesn't think it needs Russia. It just wants Russian territory and natural resources.
Scappa
Well-known member
- Jul 5, 2017
- 1,594
China has tried before to acquire the rights to water from Lake Baikal to supply Beijing, only for the locals to kick up a stink. Can well imagine that would be part of any negotiations between the two.
The only thing I can think of is Zelensky and Xi had a phone chat two days ago. Nope I didn't see that coming at all.
Yeah. What had crossed my mind, and I'm not sure if this is a hope or a fear, is that China and Russia could have the equivalent of the Nazi Germany and Soviet Union 'non-aggression pact'. Those two were at best 'frenemies', and whilst they co-operated in carving up Poland in 1939 they both wanted to destroy each other.
As you say if Russia gets weakened will China make a play? I actually hope not as I think that would be a huge escalation and expansion of the conflict. God knows where it would end then.
I think your conclusion is quite realistic - any civil disobedience around the eastern margins of Russia could give China it's green light to move in and 'stabilise the region in the interests of the safety of all local peoples ... and world peace'.
Yes, it's very interesting politics and move from China - can't see how this is going to play out.
I missed that @sparkie ... do you have a news report link please
China agrees in UN vote that Russia is an
This was also supported by countries that the Russian authorities call
mind.ua
Cheers! I found it in the end. Very surprising and an interesting move.China agrees in UN vote that Russia is an
This was also supported by countries that the Russian authorities call
World peace is difficult if the following happens:
1. Russia are eventually victorious with their annexation of areas of the Ukraine.
2. The Ukraine drive Russia out and are then fortified with NATO forces.
The third way is that The Ukraine becomes heavily influenced by China (similar to some African countries). The Chinese guarantee The Ukraine will never join NATO and pay the Russians to pull out. All three sides could try and play this as a victory. Whilst it would be seen as a defeat for Russia in most places, it’s possible that the Russian people could be brainwashed into thinking there was merit in this deal and that Putin had achieved a better outcome than before.
Small point of order buddy - it's Ukraine, not The Ukraine. It does make a difference. The latter makes it sound like a region of another country, as opposed to a country in it's own right.
Nobby Cybergoat
Well-known member
- Jul 19, 2021
- 8,628
Personally I don't think China has any interest in previously held Chinese lands now owned by Russia nor any lakes to it's north.
I think China wants Taiwan. And I think it's prepared to sell Russia out in order to win some diplomatic brownie points in pursuit of this goal
I think China wants Taiwan. And I think it's prepared to sell Russia out in order to win some diplomatic brownie points in pursuit of this goal
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,134
Thanks - I wasn't aware of that.
I googled 'does Beijing have a water supply problem' and found that it does.
Water-Stressed Beijing Exhausts Its Options
After depleting groundwater reserves, China's capital is becoming increasingly reliant on water pumped from the country's flood-prone South.
www.circleofblue.org
It's true there are a number of possible outomes, and difficult to predict
China have no interest in backing a loser. It's now essentially clear that Russia cannot win this war through fair means, and even if they somehow do manage to turn the tide completely, re-establish the front foot and end up taking Kyiv and annexing Ukraine, they'll remain an international pariah state for generations to come.
Ultimately, China is only interested in two things; (1) global stability and (2) furthering Chinese interests. Neither of these are served by Russia carrying on as they are, and I suspect this was a message to Moscow along the lines of "you're done, lads, get out of this now or we'll find a way to get you out of it ourselves".
Both Russia and the west / NATO are very guilty of still seeing the world in Cold War terms (I blame this on the current generation of politicians still largely cutting their teeth in that Cold War era, although obviously that's lessening with the passage of time). The west is slightly less thinking along those lines, largely through the international terrorist threat which meant the USA realised that it faced more threats than just the Russians, but is definitely still very guilty of thinking this way.
As you say, it means both took their eyes off the ball as China grew, and it has now essentially colonised huge swathes of sub-Saharan Africa (economically rather than in the traditional gunboat sense) and southeast Asia, while the US and Russia have battled over eastern Europe.
I've recommended it on this thread before but will do so again, "Prisoners of Geography" by Tim Marshall is excellent on how this stuff is playing out and why. It's a few years out of date now, but it's uncanny how well it plays out.
Mad isn't it. It should be front page news on every outlet.