[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[raymondo]

Russia now officially occupying Belarus ! And Lukashenko can do nothing about it !

Lukaschenko is happy to host them as they kept him in power versus his citizens that dared to want democracy rather than a police state.

 

[raymondo]

It's true of course that the Russian videos etc are all fake and more war mongering...but Putin doesn't care. He's just going through the motions to justify his imminent invasion to Russia and his state media. Everybody apart from Putin fan boys know it's BS. I'm surprised the West haven't managed to get in some cyber damage to the Russian machine... I guess the moral high ground is being kept for now. This could very soon be a blood bath.
Also, some NATO countries have recently been saying they don't want Ukraine as a future member cos they know it brings conflict with Russia closer. FFS NATO, don't hold out the future carrot for Ukraine for years and then pull back in alarm. They could have thought this through years ago and let Ukraine know where they stand.

 

[Eric the meek]

It's true of course that the Russian videos etc are all fake and more war mongering...but Putin doesn't care. He's just going through the motions to justify his imminent invasion to Russia and his state media. Everybody apart from Putin fan boys know it's BS. I'm surprised the West haven't managed to get in some cyber damage to the Russian machine... I guess the moral high ground is being kept for now. This could very soon be a blood bath.
Also, some NATO countries have recently been saying they don't want Ukraine as a future member cos they know it brings conflict with Russia closer. FFS NATO, don't hold out the future carrot for Ukraine for years and then pull back in alarm. They could have thought this through years ago and let Ukraine know where they stand.

What if the separatist movement in eastern Ukraine was fomented by Russia in 2014 in the full knowledge that NATO does not allow entry to new members if they have border disputes? If so, the policy would have been to help the 'separatists' in 2014, but not enough for them to win full independence from Ukraine, as that would create a new buffer state, and end the border dispute within Ukraine, the very thing preventing Ukraine from joining NATO. This may be why the separatist issue has dragged on for years.

 

[Swansman]

It's true of course that the Russian videos etc are all fake and more war mongering...but Putin doesn't care. He's just going through the motions to justify his imminent invasion to Russia and his state media. Everybody apart from Putin fan boys know it's BS. I'm surprised the West haven't managed to get in some cyber damage to the Russian machine... I guess the moral high ground is being kept for now. This could very soon be a blood bath.
Also, some NATO countries have recently been saying they don't want Ukraine as a future member cos they know it brings conflict with Russia closer. FFS NATO, don't hold out the future carrot for Ukraine for years and then pull back in alarm. They could have thought this through years ago and let Ukraine know where they stand.

Ehm.. what do you know? If they manage to "get in some cyber damage to the Russian machine" they wouldnt tell you. But I guess there is a fair chance the West are using its army of internet trolls, hackers and shills to once again dehumanize a state (this time around Russia). And they're doing a damn fine job.

 

[Eric the meek]

Ehm.. what do you know? If they manage to "get in some cyber damage to the Russian machine" they wouldnt tell you. But I guess there is a fair chance the West are using its army of internet trolls, hackers and shills to once again dehumanize a state (this time around Russia). And they're doing a damn fine job.

Glad to see you're on our side Swanny. We need more like you from the neutral countries. Thanks for your support.

 

[peterward]

What if the separatist movement in eastern Ukraine was fomented by Russia in 2014 in the full knowledge that NATO does not allow entry to new members if they have border disputes? If so, the policy would have been to help the 'separatists' in 2014, but not enough for them to win full independence from Ukraine, as that would create a new buffer state, and end the border dispute within Ukraine, the very thing preventing Ukraine from joining NATO. This may be why the separatist issue has dragged on for years.

There's no "what if" Eric, youre observations are entirely correct. This is the reason Russia invaded a part of Moldova and created the puppet government in Transdnistria, its exactly the same playbook when former Georgian President Mikail Saakashvili announced Georgia was moving towards NATO membership, they created pretext, then invaded, destroyed much of the Georgian military and stole South Ossetia which is about 1/3 of the country, installing a puppet leadership and freezing the conflict.

Of course thats the reason they formed the puppet republics in Ukraine. Russian military and bus loads of special services fomenting dissent, claiming to be local residents and militias. They tried it in Donetsk, Lughansk, Mariupol, Odessa and Kharkiv, they were repelled by real locals and local militas in the latter 3, but got control of the first 2, installing a couple of complient non entity nobodies (a former factory worker and a guy who used to be a clown at kids parties) to be the front for the puppet states.

The ultimate aim is exactly that, to control Ukraine, either by preventing it from being able to freely join NATO or the EU as both state they will not admit countries with unresolved conflicts, and when that still doesnt work or regain control, they dish out loads of Russian passports to locals, pass a law in the Duma that they can militarily intervene abroad for Russian and Russian speakers, just like Hitler did for Germanics in the Sudetenland.

The so called Minsk agreements, where Russia pretends it is not a party to the conflict (and why dont they just refuse to deal with Russia until they admit they are??), is designed to make the 2 puppet republics veto wielding, Moscow controlled parts of Ukraine, that have full autonomy and can prevent/block any Ukrainian National government legislative moves towards NATO or the EU, effectively ending all Ukrainian aspirations of democratic and western direction.

Russia, invaded a piece of sovereign Ukrainian territory with its military and special services, installed a puppet peoples republic regime, then at at gun point pretend theyre the peace brokers who can stop it all if Ukraine just sign a deal that will formally dismember the country and give Russia a full veto over its future....... It was always his intention that his puppet trojan horse republic allows Putin to control the tail that can wag the dog at will. And right now he is using them to turn up the dial of pressure with disinfomation and false flags

 

[Swansman]

Glad to see you're on our side Swanny. We need more like you from the neutral countries. Thanks for your support.

I'm not on the side of Boris Johnson, Vladimir Putin, Joe Biden, Xi Jinping, Exxon Corp, Lockheed, Boeing or any other war mongering greedy politican, country or company you can think of.

What I see in social media currently is that people are getting tricked into bloodbaths once again, with the same old strategy that was once mentioned by a hideous man:

"Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or fascist dictorship, or a parliament or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peace makers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

People are sheep, severly struggling to understand the lack of logic in their reasoning: how many countries are we in the West going to bomb the shit out of for allegedly not being as nice and peaceful as us? How many state coups are we going to do in foreign countries before we have a deep ****ing look in the mirror and start waving our guns over the immoral politics of this or that country? How many times are we going to buy the lie that we're going to war for moral reasons when it over and over and over again turns out to be just about money and resources? I see absolutely no logical reason why I would show any trust and support to "your/our side".

There's always been a few voices of wisdom. Non-sheep. Thinkers. They get punished: “I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong”, Ali said, and got sentenced to five years in prison.

 

[Eric the meek]

There's no "what if" Eric, youre observations are entirely correct. This is the reason Russia invaded a part of Moldova and created the puppet government in Transdnistria, its exactly the same playbook when former Georgian President Mikail Saakashvili announced Georgia was moving towards NATO membership, they created pretext, then invaded, destroyed much of the Georgian military and stole South Ossetia which is about 1/3 of the country, installing a puppet leadership and freezing the conflict.

Of course thats the reason they formed the puppet republics in Ukraine. Russian military and bus loads of special services fomenting dissent, claiming to be local residents and militias. They tried it in Donetsk, Lughansk, Mariupol, Odessa and Kharkiv, they were repelled by real locals and local militas in the latter 3, but got control of the first 2, installing a couple of complient non entity nobodies (a former factory worker and a guy who used to be a clown at kids parties) to be the front for the puppet states.

The ultimate aim is exactly that, to control Ukraine, either by preventing it from being able to freely join NATO or the EU as both state they will not admit countries with unresolved conflicts, and when that still doesnt work or regain control, they dish out loads of Russian passports to locals, pass a law in the Duma that they can militarily intervene abroad for Russian and Russian speakers, just like Hitler did for Germanics in the Sudetenland.

The so called Minsk agreements, where Russia pretends it is not a party to the conflict (and why dont they just refuse to deal with Russia until they admit they are??), is designed to make the 2 puppet republics veto wielding, Moscow controlled parts of Ukraine, that have full autonomy and can prevent/block any Ukrainian National government legislative moves towards NATO or the EU, effectively ending all Ukrainian aspirations of democratic and western direction.

Russia, invaded a piece of sovereign Ukrainian territory with its military and special services, installed a puppet peoples republic regime, then at at gun point pretned theyre the peace brokers who can stop it all if Ukraine just sign a deal that will formally dismembe the country and give Russian a full veto over its future....... It was always his intention that his puppet trojan horse republic allows Putin to control the tail that can wag the dog at will.

Your knowledge far surpasses mine. I had a vague idea that a similar thing had happened in Transdnistra and Georgia, but wasn't sure of my facts.

And to think that an unelected tyrant has been able to carry out this 'border creep' to neighbouring states for years, and get away with it? Perhaps the key is that he is unelected, and never has to face his electorate, because he hasn't got one.

 

[dangull]

The Soviet Union lost the cold war, the British Empire has been dissolved. We have moved on, so should Russia.
Having said that, there should be more effort to bringing Russia as a family of nations rather than pushing NATO on its door step.
It was the country that was the decisive factor in winning WW2

 

[raymondo]

What if the separatist movement in eastern Ukraine was fomented by Russia in 2014 in the full knowledge that NATO does not allow entry to new members if they have border disputes? If so, the policy would have been to help the 'separatists' in 2014, but not enough for them to win full independence from Ukraine, as that would create a new buffer state, and end the border dispute within Ukraine, the very thing preventing Ukraine from joining NATO. This may be why the separatist issue has dragged on for years.

Yes, that all sounds highly likely to me.

 

[raymondo]

Ehm.. what do you know? If they manage to "get in some cyber damage to the Russian machine" they wouldnt tell you. But I guess there is a fair chance the West are using its army of internet trolls, hackers and shills to once again dehumanize a state (this time around Russia). And they're doing a damn fine job.

A state that looks extremely likely to invade Ukraine for the 3rd time in 8 years (to further increase the deaths of civilians) is doing a great job at dehumanising itself...it doesn't need input from the West in that regard.

 

[vegster]

I'm not on the side of Boris Johnson, Vladimir Putin, Joe Biden, Xi Jinping, Exxon Corp, Lockheed, Boeing or any other war mongering greedy politican, country or company you can think of.

What I see in social media currently is that people are getting tricked into bloodbaths once again, with the same old strategy that was once mentioned by a hideous man:

"Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or fascist dictorship, or a parliament or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peace makers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

People are sheep, severly struggling to understand the lack of logic in their reasoning: how many countries are we in the West going to bomb the shit out of for allegedly not being as nice and peaceful as us? How many state coups are we going to do in foreign countries before we have a deep ****ing look in the mirror and start waving our guns over the immoral politics of this or that country? How many times are we going to buy the lie that we're going to war for moral reasons when it over and over and over again turns out to be just about money and resources? I see absolutely no logical reason why I would show any trust and support to "your/our side".

There's always been a few voices of wisdom. Non-sheep. Thinkers. They get punished: “I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong”, Ali said, and got sentenced to five years in prison.

There's only one person who is happy to look for ways to justify a war, one person. It starts with that one person and that one person can stop all the bloodshed and walk away..... Ukraine isn't invading anyone, NATO isn't invading anyone just the one man with all the threats...

 

[raymondo]

​

To those of us who have relatives and friends in Ukraine, I want to wish you and yours the very best of luck should the worst happen. May they stay safe, whatever the outcome.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The Soviet Union lost the cold war, the British Empire has been dissolved. We have moved on, so should Russia.
Having said that, there should be more effort to bringing Russia as a family of nations rather than pushing NATO on its door step.
It was the country that was the decisive factor in winning WW2

Nobody is pushing NATO. NATO is a peacekeeping force.

 

[The Clamp]

I'm not on the side of Boris Johnson, Vladimir Putin, Joe Biden, Xi Jinping, Exxon Corp, Lockheed, Boeing or any other war mongering greedy politican, country or company you can think of.

What I see in social media currently is that people are getting tricked into bloodbaths once again, with the same old strategy that was once mentioned by a hideous man:

"Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or fascist dictorship, or a parliament or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peace makers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

People are sheep, severly struggling to understand the lack of logic in their reasoning: how many countries are we in the West going to bomb the shit out of for allegedly not being as nice and peaceful as us? How many state coups are we going to do in foreign countries before we have a deep ****ing look in the mirror and start waving our guns over the immoral politics of this or that country? How many times are we going to buy the lie that we're going to war for moral reasons when it over and over and over again turns out to be just about money and resources? I see absolutely no logical reason why I would show any trust and support to "your/our side".

There's always been a few voices of wisdom. Non-sheep. Thinkers. They get punished: “I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong”, Ali said, and got sentenced to five years in prison.

You are conflating a lot of different things here and getting most confused. Quoting Goering at the Nuremberg trials is an odd choice. A defeated fascist talking about tricking Germany into supporting war by using the Jews as a scapegoat. Is absolutely not what is happening today with Russia.

Nobody is being tricked by the West here. We have an aggressor who is trying to trick the world, a country about to be invaded so a maniac can save face and the West desperately trying to prevent all out war.

Then you have quoted Mohammed Ali regarding his refusal to fight in a futile war that was motivated largely by a paranoid US who didn't want another communist super power in the world. Again, this is not what is happening on the Russian/Ukraine border at the moment.

Both quotes have their merits in the right context, This is not the correct context. Of course wars have been fought for resources and wealth. Iraq being a recent example. Other wars have been fought in the defense of freedom and in the name of democracy such as WW2.

This situation would fall into the latter category. It's tempting to be binary about war and assign one motivation to all circumstances. That is naive and unhelpful.

 

[dangull]

Nobody is pushing NATO. NATO is a peacekeeping force.

A peace keeping force of a lot of nations against a nation that was no longer a threat, unless provoked.

 

[Insel affe]

Anyone know if Putin or Russia is mentioned by Nostradamus?

 

[The Clamp]

A peace keeping force of a lot of nations against a nation that was no longer a threat, unless provoked.

I can see why Putin doesn't want Ukraine to join NATO. However, whether Ukraine joins NATO or not is not up to Putin and it is not his place to march over the border and start killing and carpet bombing Ukranians.

 

[raymondo]

You are conflating a lot of different things here and getting most confused. Quoting Goering at the Nuremberg trials is an odd choice. A defeated fascist talking about tricking Germany into supporting war by using the Jews as a scapegoat. Is absolutely not what is happening today with Russia.

Nobody is being tricked by the West here. We have an aggressor who is trying to trick the world, a country about to be invaded so a maniac can save face and the West desperately trying to prevent all out war.

Then you have quoted Mohammed Ali regarding his refusal to fight in a futile war that was motivated largely by a paranoid US who didn't want another communist super power in the world. Again, this is not what is happening on the Russian/Ukraine border at the moment.

Both quotes have their merits in the right context, This is not the correct context. Of course wars have been fought for resources and wealth. Iraq being a recent example. Other wars have been fought in the defense of freedom and in the name of democracy such as WW2.

This situation would fall into the latter category. It's tempting to be binary about war and assign one motivation to all circumstances. That is naive and unhelpful.

Well said. Thank you.

 

[A1X]

A peace keeping force of a lot of nations against a nation that was no longer a threat, unless provoked.

So clearly still a threat in some capacity then?