[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[SouthSaxon]

Ukraine’s kit needs to be better than the Russian kit, not the equal of US kit.

Baby strollers with go faster stripes, that kind of thing.

 

[peterward]

He really is a twat BUT my understanding is that the ration of US v Europe et al military support was 51/49, so whilst the US are pulling out the EU/UK are stepping up, added to this Turkey are increasing their support. With the failure of the attempted Russian breakout and the lack of a spring offensive from Russia, the cards are slowly falling into Ukraine hands.
i do believe that from A European point of view a case of ‘don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out’. He’s taken his ball home but Ukraine are being offered others.

Tactically it doesn’t make sense as you can’t threaten to remove your support if you are already taking down the infrastructur.

He keeps moving goalposts, and I think its pretty self evident, He's setting Ukraine up to accept either a capitulation deal and put a new puppet in Kyiv, or to try and frame the failure of any "peace" as down to an obstinate Zelenskyy.

He's compromised.

 

[Triggaaar]

He keeps moving goalposts, and I think its pretty self evident, He's setting Ukraine up ylto either a capitulation deal and new puppet in Kyiv, or to try and frame the failure of any "peace" as down to an obstinate Zelenskyy.

He's compromised.

Under no circumstances should Zelenskyy step down. He also should not meet with the US.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

He keeps moving goalposts, and I think its pretty self evident, He's setting Ukraine up ylto either a capitulation deal and new puppet in Kyiv, or to try and frame the failure of any "peace" as down to an obstinate Zelenskyy.

He's compromised.

But with the support that rest of Europe is going to, and is providing, he can tell Trump to go forth and multiply. I would go as far as to say that Zelensky is very much stronger than a week ago and Trumps is very much weaker, it’s just that Trump doesn’t realise it.

i foresee him having a fit, claiming that Zelensky doesn’t want peace and then heading to the golf course.

i look forward to reading that Trump had heart attack/stroke on the the 13th at some grotty golf course where his last act was to shit himself.

 

[raymondo]

Under no circumstances should Zelenskyy step down. He also should not meet with the US.

Agreed.
Trump and his group cannot be trusted at all. Extortion, bullying, manipulation.
Also Musk cannot be trusted,and therefore continuation of Starlink cannot be trusted - there could be 'malfuncions' at any time.
But I think Zelenskiy will meet again with the US, because I believe European leaders require him to.
The suspicions of US leadership are not yet fully embedded in the psyche of European leaders. It should be though, it's bleeding obvious.

 

[raymondo]

I haven't even opened it yet, as I believe I will be livid when I watch it. Maybe later...

 

[raymondo]

That last sentence.

I remember watching Elon in an interview in Dubai or some such place in about 2017. He was asked what his greatest challenge was. He answered to the effect that (at that stage) he was surrounded by people who agree with him. They all told him what they thought he wanted to hear. So he never got good, honest feedback. Until he got feedback from people who don't work for him.

Maybe being wealthy and powerful is self regulating.

He should visit NSC if wants to be surrounded by people that disagree with him.

 

[raymondo]

Allegedly...

US hasn't stopped sharing defense-related intelligence with Ukraine, Trump's envoy says

The U.S. has never stopped sharing intelligence with Ukraine that is used for defensive purposes, Steve Witkoff said.

kyivindependent.com

 

[peterward]

Thoroughly recommend this shortish few minutes clip. Dr Ben Tallis is a British strategic and defense expert, who works for both EU and German governments.

He's at a European strategy forum in Lithuania talking about what we need to do defense wise to stop Russia and people to defeat them.

A little intellectual, but illuminating and right up Eric's path imho!

Link should open at right place, on a Lithuania website.

 

[beorhthelm]

He keeps moving goalposts, and I think its pretty self evident, He's setting Ukraine up to accept either a capitulation deal and put a new puppet in Kyiv, or to try and frame the failure of any "peace" as down to an obstinate Zelenskyy.

He's compromised.

surely if Zelensky did step down, without obvious route to elections or in an interim period, his deputy or other from his party takes over? dont know the politics or electoral system but seems unlikely the "opposition" is a given to take over either way.

 

[peterward]

surely if Zelensky did step down, without obvious route to elections or in an interim period, his deputy or other from his party takes over? dont know the politics or electoral system but seems unlikely the "opposition" is a given to take over either way.

It's not going to happen anyway. He won't be pressured to stand down and violate constitution, just so Trump gets a hollow PR win.

 

[raymondo]

He keeps moving goalposts, and I think its pretty self evident, He's setting Ukraine up to accept either a capitulation deal and put a new puppet in Kyiv, or to try and frame the failure of any "peace" as down to an obstinate Zelenskyy.

He's compromised.

I wonder how many Trump meme coins and Gaza villas were offered to Tymoshenko and Poroshenko

 

[Cordwainer]

It's not going to happen anyway. He won't be pressured to stand down and violate constitution, just so Trump gets a hollow PR win.

And Putin gets a Russian proxy a la Trump, as the next Ukraine president. Stay strong Zelenskyy.

 

[Triggaaar]

surely if Zelensky did step down, without obvious route to elections or in an interim period, his deputy or other from his party takes over? dont know the politics or electoral system but seems unlikely the "opposition" is a given to take over either way.

But he should NOT step down under any circumstances. To do so would be the equivalent of surrendering the country to Russia.

 

[peterward]

But he should NOT step down under any circumstances. To do so would be the equivalent of surrendering the country to Russia.

The reality right now is Zelenskyy is polling around 45%, more than double second place, Former military commander in chief and now UK ambassador Zaluzhny on 21% and he's even more hardline anti Russian than Zelenskyy, he said last week that Trump is destroying the rules based order! Then ex president Poroshenko who US spoke to is mid teens around 15% and ex PM Tymoshenko who Trump team also spoke to is about 6%.

Zelenskyy is miles ahead and next best is more anti Russian so this US plan is doomed to fail.

Edit: The US knows Ukraine constitution, opposition have already said no vote in wartime, so for US to still mention it, looks like setting up excuses to withdraw US support rather than reality based?

 

[Ethelwulf]

Trump to be given a free hand to take Greenland by force . Putin allowed to swallow up Ukraine and Baltic state and china allowed to take back Taiwan is what will be agreed . USA is now a rouge state and will act like one

 

[raymondo]

The reality right now is Zelenskyy is polling around 45%, more than double second place, Former military commander in chief and now UK ambassador Zaluzhny on 21% and he's even more hardline anti Russian than Zelenskyy, he said last week that Trump is destroying the rules based order! Then ex president Poroshenko who US spoke to is mid teens around 15% and ex PM Tymoshenko who Trump team also spoke to is about 6%.

Zelenskyy is miles ahead and next best is more anti Russian so this US plan is doomed to fail.

Edit: The US knows Ukraine constitution, opposition have already said no vote in wartime, so for US to still mention it, looks like setting up excuses to withdraw US support rather than reality based?

There will be enormous pressure from the US on Zelenskiy to step aside, in return for more military aid from the US... that will never be delivered.
Stay strong Zelenskiy