[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[SouthSaxon]

Last Autumn, I believed that a win for Trump would mean the loss of US support for Ukraine. I don't imagine I was alone in this and I just hope the Ukrainians have been making careful contingency plans to allow themselves to stay in the fight until Russia collapses.

You weren’t, I remember saying the same to my family. If we can see it, no doubt Europe’s leaders could. Starmer this week: “deep down, we knew this moment was coming”

 

[raymondo]

You don't seem to think this was premeditated. I think this was.

I'm not sure .
It's possible even the question from the press (why don't you wear a suit) was planted.
On balance I think it was premeditated - certainly Trump, being the elder statesman host () could have defused it at any time, but did the opposite.
Zelenskiy could have played it better, should have been better briefed and coached, should have gone in with a trusted calm colleague (,if allowed) and a translator to slow the pace.
But he's been fighting a war for three years and really didn't know if his hosts were friend or foe.
The US were clear in the run up to this that they weren't going to provide security guarantees. I would have hoped that was discussed and clarified in a private meeting before the presser... who knows,what a shit show.

 

[raymondo]

I even felt the late evening BBC news framed it more as Zelenskiy behaving poorly, rather than Trump and Vance being absolute bastard hosts with zero statesmanship.
Maybe I was too exhausted by then .

 

[fly high]

The US either want to sell their arms, or they don't

Didn't Trump say Europe should up it's defence budgets and spend it all on US weapons. All he cares about is money.

 

[queens park pete]

I even felt the late evening BBC news framed it more as Zelenskiy behaving poorly, rather than Trump and Vance being absolute bastard hosts with zero statesmanship.
Maybe I was too exhausted by then .

I watched the Beeb ten I clock news and clearly the first draft appeared cut that way. Disappointing.

I switched over to Newsnight who pretty forensically ripped the Maga stitch up on the spot. Decent UKR MP, , one crazed Maga apologist who ended up getting fact checked on the spot by the presenter and called a liar repeatedly by one of the commentators.

They showed a fullee cut of the interview which made the Vance role as serpent in chief very clear. A nasty piece of work.

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

Shouldn't just be the Canadians booing the US national anthem now. #StandWithUkraine

 

[raymondo]

Watch out for a Musk tweet today to discredit Zelenskiy and call for elections.

 

[raymondo]

I watched the Beeb ten I clock news and clearly the first draft appeared cut that way. Disappointing.

I switched over to Newsnight who pretty forensically ripped the Maga stitch up on the spot. Decent UKR MP, , one crazed Maga apologist who ended up getting fact checked on the spot by the presenter and called a liar repeatedly by one of the commentators.

They showed a fullee cut of the interview which made the Vance role as serpent in chief very clear. A nasty piece of work.

Thanks

 

[Binney on acid]

Last Autumn, I believed that a win for Trump would mean the loss of US support for Ukraine. I don't imagine I was alone in this and I just hope the Ukrainians have been making careful contingency plans to allow themselves to stay in the fight until Russia collapses.

It's not Ukraine that should have been making contingency plans, it's the whole of Europe !

 

[Triggaaar]

I even felt the late evening BBC news framed it more as Zelenskiy behaving poorly, rather than Trump and Vance being absolute bastard hosts with zero statesmanship.
Maybe I was too exhausted by then .

What? That's very odd.

 

[raymondo]

Shouldn't just be the Canadians booing the US national anthem now. #StandWithUkraine

He'd better be helicoptered direct into Balmoral to avoid complete dog's abuse.

 

[raymondo]

What? That's very odd.

Post 22525 from @queens park pete watched two bulletins and mentions the difference in presentation.

 

[essbee1]

He'd better be helicoptered direct into Balmoral to avoid complete dog's abuse.

But the good thing is - if he is helicoptered here, there and everywhere and is
wondering where all his "adoring" crowds are - he'll soon realise that we think
he's a piece of dogshit.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I watched the Beeb ten I clock news and clearly the first draft appeared cut that way. Disappointing.

I switched over to Newsnight who pretty forensically ripped the Maga stitch up on the spot. Decent UKR MP, , one crazed Maga apologist who ended up getting fact checked on the spot by the presenter and called a liar repeatedly by one of the commentators.

They showed a fullee cut of the interview which made the Vance role as serpent in chief very clear. A nasty piece of work.

That crazy women was an ex-ambassador, f***ing hell how do these people get into power?

 

[Eric the meek]

Post 22525 from @queens park pete watched two bulletins and mentions the difference in presentation.

I only watched the Six O'lock News, which went out very soon after the disaster unfolded. So I presume the BBC didn't have the time to put out much of a curated piece, and broadcast it pretty much as it happened. It certainly surprised Clive Myrie.

 

[Binney on acid]

That crazy women was an ex-ambassador, f***ing hell how do these people get into power?

She blamed Biden for starting the war in Ukraine ?!!

 

[Eric the meek]

One observation I have, is the feeling of devastation almost across the board on here.

Gone are the brave faces (including mine) saying that if Ukraine didn't get a good deal, it should walk away and fight on.

We were virtually unanimous in wanting it to have worked, with Ukraine getting a good deal, together with the all important security guarantee.

 

[SouthSaxon]

One observation I have, is the feeling of devastation almost across the board on here.

Gone are the brave faces (including mine) saying that if Ukraine didn't get a good deal, it should walk away and fight on.

We were virtually unanimous in wanting it to have worked, with Ukraine getting a good deal, together with the all important security guarantee.

It’s possible to hope for the latter while being pragmatic about the former.

I have no issue with Ukraine trying to carry on, with European support. They have no choice. And Zelenskyy isn’t the one threatening to walk away.

 

[papachris]

No word from Starmer yet, but Europe is coming out firmly behind Ukraine as you’d expect.

Kaja Kallis, EU foreign policy chief:



Well said.

During her previous role as Estonian prime minister Kallas was particularly outspoken in her support of Ukraine. She sees the bigger picture (Ukraine is currently the front line for Europe)