Russell Brand.........

[brighton fella]

Well.. there is a lot of debate about controlled implosions, as we can see. I don't personally believe that it was an inside job, purely because I can't imagine there wouldn't be a single whistle-blower in a conspiracy of that magnitude. However, considering what we know the USA is capable of, it would be foolish to rule it out completely. I think this is what he is saying, following the bit where he explicitly said "I'm not saying 9/11 was an inside job". I agree with him.

for once I see myself agreeing with a leftie. correct it would be foolish to rule it out completely, with a track record like that of the USA how could you afford not to.

 

[brighton fella]

Like I say, we have nothing to say to each other.

doubt I shall loose sleep over it.
just proves what I always thought about your type, labelling scumbags.

 

[Nibble]

doubt I shall loose sleep over it.
just proves what I always thought about your type, labelling scumbags.

Lose.

 

[brighton fella]

Out of interest, forgetting this futile conspiracy discussion for a second, what exactly do you have against left-wing politics? If it's immigration that concerns you so much, remember that the overpopulation of the planet and the inequality that results in mass migration exists as such a worldwide problem because it's exactly what this existing capitalist system encourages.

capitalism needs reforming, other than that im fine with it.
immigration needs reform other than that im fine with it.

 

[brighton fella]

Lose.

O sorry

 

[Buzzer]

Sorry, I must have confused you with another NSCer. I explicitly remember you defending the failings of capitalism in another thread - but I thought you were one of the UKIP apologists too.

Yes, I'll take capitalism over socialism any day and I do think UKIPers have the right to vote for who they want without getting called a racist (even though I think Farage is a chancer and I'll never vote UKIP) but if you go around calling everyone who falls under that description far-right then it kinda devalues the description "far-right".

 

[brighton fella]

...so what exactly do you have against left wing politics? Several times in this thread you have denounced "lefties"... I'm just curious what it is about their politics that you seem to despise so much?

they brand everyone a racist over the slightest little thing. infact by labelling it creates more hatred within society. not less.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Lose.

Says a loser
regards
DR

 

[Nibble]

Says a loser
regards
DR

I think maybe the joke was lost on you. Again.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I think maybe the joke was lost on you. Again.

maybe
regards
DR

 

[BadFish]

Capitalism and socialism don't have to be mutually exclusive, such as social market economics or anarcho-capitalism for example.

It appears that your mistake is the same that many other right-leaning people make in assuming that without capitalism, we would be left with socialism, or even worse, communism. This is simply untrue.

I personally don't think we need to end capitalism altogether, afterall - buying and selling is an enjoyable aspect of life, perhaps even human nature, but we certainly don't need it to have a healthy global economy and happy population... far from it.

We should consider the great things that socialism has the potential to do - such as ending vast inequality, or give the population free education, housing and healthcare. Equally, remember the great things capitalism can do, such as the production of consumer items and the subsequent technological innovation. The main problem we have in the 21st century is that we do have both capitalism and socialism, but it's socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor - it needs to be the other way around.

Discussion are so often black and white and swing to extreme around these issues. I agree with you that actually we shouldn't have to buy into one system and follow it to its extreme applying it every single area of society. A capitalist model works wonderfully well in certain areas but should not be applied to, for example, health care. The same applies to socialism both have their place in our society but both must be used carefully and in areas in which they are suited. Of course these are not our only two options (although one could be forgiven for thinking so as they are often the only ones bandied about).

IMHO the problem is not which system we are using or how we are organising ourselves it is about how that system is being manipulated by those in power for their own ends. It happened with Marxism as they found that it failed to take into account or reign in human greed and it is happening with capitalism whose mantra of 'greed is good' is flawed and completely detrimental to society.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

No, they don't. Some left leaning people might be overly sensitive to politically correct issues, but this has absolutely nothing to do with left wing politics.

Sorry to be patronising, but I'm pretty confident you don't actually know what left wing politics is. If you do, I'd love to hear what you actually disagree with, because you're yet to tell me and this is my third attempt at trying now.

Reading through various things you have been saying, I suspect that you would actually support left-wing politics, but it seems you have somehow been persuaded to resort to "leftist" stereotypes, rather than actually understanding what it is.

that works both ways on here numpty
regards
DR

 

[Triggaaar]

explain witnesses accounts of seeing and hearing explosions inside the trade centre lobby minutes before the tower collapsed, the NYFD even filmed it ?

Lots of things in a building could explode if on fire, or heated up.

explain how no trace of any markings were left embedded in the grass surface leading up to the pentagon crash area ?

The plane didn't hit the grass.

and how a boeing 757 could fit through a whole the size of a missile.

The wings came off. Who says the hole is the size of a missile? I'm sure missiles are generally a lot smaller, unless you're taking out the whole city.

there are more cctv cameras on this building than any other building on the planet yet the government wont release any videos showing the boeing 757 hitting the pentagon on 9/11 why ?

Because they don't feel the need to. If they did, you'd simply say that the videos were doctored anyway, so what's the point? We have plenty of footage and eye witness accounts of planes hitting the towers, but some people still believe that didn't happen.

victims/relatives of 9/11 have never been given a hearing, they've been asking for a public enquiry because they've never been given one, most of them do not believe the governments version of the story either. their grievances are heard on video.

Most of them? So with over 3,000 people dead on 9/11, and therefore well over 10,000 close relatives, you've heard from most of them have you? You've seen well over 5,000 ask for a public inquiry?

quite right I shouldn't have openly said it was an inside job as at this moment of time it can only be speculation rather than fact

Indeed.

.suppose in the same way as you shouldn't automatically assume the governments story to be correct.

But I didn't come on here and announce that I've discovered that the governments version of events is entirely accurate. I simply haven't seen any credible evidence to suggest that it's not. You don't seem to have a specific theory, you just believe a lot of the disjointed stories that have done the rounds on youtube.

So tell me...
Do you believe that the US put a man on the moon in the 60s, or do you believe that was a lie?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Of course. I appreciate that you have absolutely no interest in actually contributing to this discussion, however your post is still worthy of a reply.

It does work both ways. Both the "left" and "right" are prone to making personal attacks, rather than actually discussing their differences and compromising, in reality just like on here.

If we want change, we need to acknowledge that we all share common goals. We all want to live in a better, fairer world where hard working people are rewarded and the most vulnerable in society are protected.

By picking sides and with this kind of petty squabbling, the only winners will be those at the top while we are fighting amongst ourselves. In order for there to be radical change, for the power to return to the people, we must unite and stand up to the status quo.

never going to happen , you're living in cloud cuckoo land , everyones trying to protect their own interests, that's why there is very little intergration in society and the more that come to this island the worse it will get
regards
DR

 

[BadFish]

I can absolutely assure you that isn't the case. I work with a lot of 18-28 year olds and they all seem to be fully aware of the inequalities and injustices of the world and are passionate about doing something about it, it surprises even me at times. This is why Russell Brand is such a revelation, he is tuning into what people already know and getting the younger generations talking about it.

Additionally just look anywhere on social media, whether it's facebook, Reddit or Twitter - people are so increasingly aware about the problems, change has become inevitable, like a domino effect.

Yes, of course we all try to protect our own interests - but we all inherently understand that a better country, a better world, is better for us as individuals.

I can tell immediately by your attitude that you are of an older generation and you have "given up" on the idea change - but don't give up, because change is coming and it will benefit you. If you have kids or grandkids, think of them and the world you want them to live in.

The internet has caused a kind of unification that has never happened before in the history of man, it's very exciting, and you can be part of it - instead of being the miserable thorn in the side of this radical social and political revolution that we are about to experience.

I hope you are right Mustafa and i can certainly see signs of things changing and improving.

 

[beorhthelm]

I can absolutely assure you that isn't the case. I work with a lot of 18-28 year olds and they all seem to be fully aware of the inequalities and injustices of the world and are passionate about doing something about it, it surprises even me at times. This is why Russell Brand is such a revelation, he is tuning into what people already know and getting the younger generations talking about it.

really, you are incorrigible, he is not a revelation. he saying the same thing as every and any half clever undergrad has said over a few pints or maybe just in the common room. i pity the younger generation if they need a celebrity to get them talking about this old issue, because it certainly didnt need help when i was 18-28 (not that long ago) and every generation since the 60's (and in the decades before that, some of the grown ups that thought the same thoughts). seems to me that the internet has shortend our youthful attention span even further: lets smash the state... oh kitten meme, lol... we must attack the corporatist overlords... tweet about this cool gadget... etc.

the older generation dont give up on the idea of change, they just grow up and understand things a bit more complicated.

 

[BadFish]

really, you are incorrigible, he is not a revelation. he saying the same thing as every and any half clever undergrad has said over a few pints or maybe just in the common room. i pity the younger generation if they need a celebrity to get them talking about this old issue, because it certainly didnt need help when i was 18-28 (not that long ago) and every generation since the 60's (and in the decades before that, some of the grown ups that thought the same thoughts). seems to me that the internet has shortend our youthful attention span even further: lets smash the state... oh kitten meme, lol... we must attack the corporatist overlords... tweet about this cool gadget... etc.

the older generation dont give up on the idea of change, they just grow up and understand things a bit more complicated.

The complexity of a situation has no baring on the necessity to change it. People have been discussion it for a long time but soon the necessity to do something about it will outweigh the perceived complexity of the changes required. The answers and solutions are out there and we are rapidly approaching a very simple choice or changing our ways or facing destruction. The vapid desire of capitalism to consume all our resources is tempered by the fact we are rapidly consuming our resources. Capitalism is a paradox that will end up eating itself unless changes are made and made soon. It is patently obvious that our leaders are not equipped or willing to make the changes required so we are left with little choice.

 

[Hastings gull]

This whole debate has nothing to do with right or left wing politics. It's about the state of the world - the destruction of the environment, the vast and ever increasing inequality, the sacrifice of our rights and freedoms to the corporations, the demise of democracy - these things we can all agree on, so let's forget which "side" we're on for am moment and accept that we need to do a lot more to address these very serious problems... together.

I can recall a post from your good self talking about how we could all get together around the table and hammer out solutions to the world's problems etc etc. But you have arrogantly decided on the agenda already, saying that we can "all agree on". How do you know that we can all agree on - the alleged demise of democracy is your pet catch-phrase; it is what you regard as vital, but not necessarily what others see as crucial or even realistic. That is why I am so dubious as to whether you are the right person to call for such a challenge as your views are so outlandish that it is highly unlikely that a consensus would ever be agreed.

 

[Hastings gull]

The complexity of a situation has no baring on the necessity to change it. People have been discussion it for a long time but soon the necessity to do something about it will outweigh the perceived complexity of the changes required.The answers and solutions are out there [/B]and we are rapidly approaching a very simple choice or changing our ways or facing destruction. The vapid desire of capitalism to consume all our resources is tempered by the fact we are rapidly consuming our resources. Capitalism is a paradox that will end up eating itself unless changes are made and made soon. It is patently obvious that our leaders are not equipped or willing to make the changes required so we are left with little choice.

I am afraid that the post was quite right. As you get older, your experience of life is such that you realise that what you thought as a young person is not quite so workable, given human nature and the complexity of modern society. It would help if you were less vague -the answers and solutions are out there -where?
The sentence about resources -I am sorry but I can't understand this??

 

[Seagull on the wing]

The arrogance of the aged. Just because you didn't manage it, doesn't mean that this generation can't.

Oh! because we are OLD ,we know less than you and are arrogant...get a life son,one day you will be old...hopefully,then you will realise that older people have the experience of life...my grandfather died on the Somme so knumbskulls like you can come on here to express your idea's of of knowing all. They did manage it...far more than you would and could.....