Russell Brand.........

[brighton fella]

No I am not suggesting any alternative because as you say they are not workable. I do think that there is a workable system out there but I am yet to hear about it. IMHO democracy is an excellent system it is just that the *******ised shell of democracy that we currently endure serves no-one but the 1%. We have a system in place that has worked and should work okay it has just been manipulated by those in power for their own ends.

My thinking is that with our system the people are still the key to powerful retaining their power, they have just become highly skilled at distracting us and keeping us both too busy and too apathetic to fight back. Perhaps Brand will increase the ground swell of opinion and unite those of us that see it and give a shit to make a difference.

Sadly I suspect that we will continue to highlight each other's failings and concentrate on the things that divide us rather than coming together to work out a solution to our common problem. We don't like Russel because he is too rich, too egocentric and too annoying, We don't like Bono because he is a cock, We don't like Geldof because he is scruffy, We don't like the occupy movement because they are too unwashed and too dreadlocky, we don't like Anonymous because they are too maverik, we don't like UKIP because they are too racist, you don't like me because i am too much of a lefty, I don't like you because you are too far right, no one likes this paragraph because it is too sanctamonious and preachy. Yet all of us, apparently know what the real problem is. Are we too divided and too focussed on each other faults to do anything about it?

and that my friend is just how the ruling elite like it, to divert any attention away from themselves and their wrong doings and by drawing focus upon peoples differences instead.
remember wars line their pockets thus giving them further power and to achieve war you have to create a purpose for it.. people divide is one of the oldest tricks in the book and a strategy that's been used for decades.
unfortunately I see no answer to this because money is very power full tool. how do you convince an entire army that your leaders are screwing you over, how do you convince an entire army to lay down its weapons and how do you convince an entire army that everything will be fine and that you will have enough food on your plate to feed you and your family a lifetime.
it matters not whether you are right or left we all strive the same goal.. peacefulness and happiness.
merry xmas.

 

[BadFish]

and that my friend is just how the ruling elite like it, to divert any attention away from themselves and their wrong doings and by drawing focus upon peoples differences instead.
remember wars line their pockets thus giving them further power and to achieve war you have to create a purpose for it.. people divide is one of the oldest tricks in the book and a strategy that's been used for decades.
unfortunately I see no answer to this because money is very power full tool. how do you convince an entire army that your leaders are screwing you over, how do you convince an entire army to lay down its weapons and how do you convince an entire army that everything will be fine and that you will have enough food on your plate to feed you and your family a lifetime.
it matters not whether you are right or left we all strive the same goal.. peacefulness and happiness.
merry xmas.

Merry Christmas to you too.

I am seeing signs we are getting somewhere with this and can maybe make a change.

 

[pastafarian]

I am only a couple of chapters into the book so far but from what i have read and what i have heard of Brand I am surprised that he has any kind of solution in place.

My understanding is that he isn't putting forward a solution at this stage, more eliciting discussion and the sharing of ideas to encourage people to make the changes they think are necessary.

Do you have a link of him putting forward this anarcho-syndicalism solution? (apologies if i missed it previously)

Your best bet is probably to google Anarcho Syndicalism Russell Brand, he has mentioned it and it appears in his youtube content. Mustafa has also confirmed it.

I think i would lose the will to live if i had to view all his videos again to find a relevant one. So you will have to forgive me for not providing a link.

This is his solution in this country to the problems of inequalities.

Its probably fair at this point to take Tubbthumpers point that maybe he doesnt sign up to every single aspect of a society built on Anarcho Syndicalism.

However the main jist of this system is everything......i mean everything is nationalised, we all then work in a union and everyone is provided for the same......no inequalities!

Their is a direct democracy aspect where important decisions are made/voted by the people.Now i quite agree with this aspect in principal,think Switzerland and their referendum system.

However,to achieve this union,capitalism ,private ownership of property,wages and money are abolished.

The idea then brakes down into two areas of thinking.

Collectivist Anarchism where everyone is paid in Labour vouchers which can be exchanged for goods in a communal market

or

Anarchist Communism where you take what you want from a communal market according to your need.




I am going to go out on a limb here and say this is not how the vast majority of the population in this country wish to live.

The chances of getting the rest of the world to sign up to this as well after Brands revolution are pretty non existent.

What would happen if i wanted to say bugger off to Australia and seek a new life for me and my family......how would i escape the collective with no money and fly to and set up a new life in a capitalist country. Actually how does Brands system for the UK even allow to go on holiday anywhere.

You speak of

Why is this truism always bandied about? How is it you consider that you 'must' offer and alternative if you want to replace something broken.

This would be fine if you are living in a commune of 50 people isolated from the rest of the world,but the fact remains you absolutely must provide an alternative to a system that you wish to demolish,millions of people are reliant on that. To enter into a new system and say we will work it out as we go along betrays the most vulnerable......the very people you have set out to protect in the first place.

I find it quite interesting when people question Brand on how his new utopia would work or even what it is, he nearly always puts on a big grin and says im just a comedian mate,i dont have all the answers.

The cynic inside me says he hopes everyone doesnt wake up yet to what he is really promoting.....the TV,radio and media appearances are proving to be very lucrative at the moment.

God forbid the masses find out what the intended end game is.

 

[pastafarian]

most people nowadays are fully aware of NWO and it's corrupt going-on's as it stares you direct in the face "those who aren't can only be walking around in a trance" yet when anyone dares suggest NWO is happening and actually exists they are subjected to a barrage of abuse and labelled as a complete idiot or an absolute raving loon which conveniently plays right into the very hands of the ruling elite themselves which only adds support to their conniving little plan.
as for brands book I wouldn't have the patience to siv all the way through it just for a single answer that im looking for. ta all the same.

Normally i would take you on with regards to this NWO stuff,but thats for another thread at another time,this one is actually turning out to be quite interesting and doesnt deserve a diversionary binfest

happy yulefest

 

[pauli cee]

Your best bet is probably to google Anarcho Syndicalism Russell Brand, he has mentioned it and it appears in his youtube content. Mustafa has also confirmed it.

I think i would lose the will to live if i had to view all his videos again to find a relevant one. So you will have to forgive me for not providing a link.

This is his solution in this country to the problems of inequalities.

Its probably fair at this point to take Tubbthumpers point that maybe he doesnt sign up to every single aspect of a society built on Anarcho Syndicalism.

However the main jist of this system is everything......i mean everything is nationalised, we all then work in a union and everyone is provided for the same......no inequalities!

Their is a direct democracy aspect where important decisions are made/voted by the people.Now i quite agree with this aspect in principal,think Switzerland and their referendum system.

However,to achieve this union,capitalism ,private ownership of property,wages and money are abolished.

The idea then brakes down into two areas of thinking.

Collectivist Anarchism where everyone is paid in Labour vouchers which can be exchanged for goods in a communal market

or

Anarchist Communism where you take what you want from a communal market according to your need.




I am going to go out on a limb here and say this is not how the vast majority of the population in this country wish to live.

The chances of getting the rest of the world to sign up to this as well after Brands revolution are pretty non existent.

What would happen if i wanted to say bugger off to Australia and seek a new life for me and my family......how would i escape the collective with no money and fly to and set up a new life in a capitalist country. Actually how does Brands system for the UK even allow to go on holiday anywhere.

You speak of



This would be fine if you are living in a commune of 50 people isolated from the rest of the world,but the fact remains you absolutely must provide an alternative to a system that you wish to demolish,millions of people are reliant on that. To enter into a new system and say we will work it out as we go along betrays the most vulnerable......the very people you have set out to protect in the first place.

I find it quite interesting when people question Brand on how his new utopia would work or even what it is, he nearly always puts on a big grin and says im just a comedian mate,i dont have all the answers.

The cynic inside me says he hopes everyone doesnt wake up yet to what he is really promoting.....the TV,radio and media appearances are proving to be very lucrative at the moment.

God forbid the masses find out what the intended end game is.

very good for 5 o clock in the morning.........

 

[BadFish]

Your best bet is probably to google Anarcho Syndicalism Russell Brand, he has mentioned it and it appears in his youtube content. Mustafa has also confirmed it.

I think i would lose the will to live if i had to view all his videos again to find a relevant one. So you will have to forgive me for not providing a link.

This is his solution in this country to the problems of inequalities.

Its probably fair at this point to take Tubbthumpers point that maybe he doesnt sign up to every single aspect of a society built on Anarcho Syndicalism.

However the main jist of this system is everything......i mean everything is nationalised, we all then work in a union and everyone is provided for the same......no inequalities!

Their is a direct democracy aspect where important decisions are made/voted by the people.Now i quite agree with this aspect in principal,think Switzerland and their referendum system.

However,to achieve this union,capitalism ,private ownership of property,wages and money are abolished.

The idea then brakes down into two areas of thinking.

Collectivist Anarchism where everyone is paid in Labour vouchers which can be exchanged for goods in a communal market

or

Anarchist Communism where you take what you want from a communal market according to your need.




I am going to go out on a limb here and say this is not how the vast majority of the population in this country wish to live.

The chances of getting the rest of the world to sign up to this as well after Brands revolution are pretty non existent.

What would happen if i wanted to say bugger off to Australia and seek a new life for me and my family......how would i escape the collective with no money and fly to and set up a new life in a capitalist country. Actually how does Brands system for the UK even allow to go on holiday anywhere.

You speak of



This would be fine if you are living in a commune of 50 people isolated from the rest of the world,but the fact remains you absolutely must provide an alternative to a system that you wish to demolish,millions of people are reliant on that. To enter into a new system and say we will work it out as we go along betrays the most vulnerable......the very people you have set out to protect in the first place.

I find it quite interesting when people question Brand on how his new utopia would work or even what it is, he nearly always puts on a big grin and says im just a comedian mate,i dont have all the answers.

The cynic inside me says he hopes everyone doesnt wake up yet to what he is really promoting.....the TV,radio and media appearances are proving to be very lucrative at the moment.

God forbid the masses find out what the intended end game is.

I haven't found out about the Anarcho Syndicalism I am listening to him banging on about it right now but what he is saying doesn't really bear much relation to what you describe. So i am not going to comment on that.

Of course we will need a new system to move into the point I am making is that you don't need one person clutching a new manifesto to lead the masses into a new utopia. This doesn't need to be a massive all in one overhaul, it will be an incremental shift into something new, I believe the process has already started. I also strongly suggest that there are many among us that will not even notice (boiling frog?). I don't see how this will betray the most vulnerable?

What we need is discussion and the sharing of ideas in order to improve our lives and redress the balance of power. Like I have said this is a collaborative process through which we need to work. IMHO we are not up to the point of looking for new systems are (some people are and they are thinking about it and discussing it). We need different people playing different roles and as Russel said he is just a comedian, most people (me included) would be extremely suspicious if he suddenly started banging on about his manifesto.

What is he really promoting? If this is all about self promotion then surely he would be better off carrying on his Hollywood career and rubbing shoulders with the glitterati. He has said that he was involved in that world and found it unfulfilling. I must confess that so far I haven't found a reason to doubt his reasons for doing what he is doing. Maybe i am more trusting and less cynical than others (Although i highly doubt this), maybe I will come to realise that he is charlatan and is only in it for his own gain, who knows?

I am off for a few beers and a curry. Viva Le Revolution

 

[pastafarian]

I haven't found out about the Anarcho Syndicalism I am listening to him banging on about it right now but what he is saying doesn't really bear much relation to what you describe. So i am not going to comment on that.

Of course we will need a new system to move into the point I am making is that you don't need one person clutching a new manifesto to lead the masses into a new utopia. This doesn't need to be a massive all in one overhaul, it will be an incremental shift into something new, I believe the process has already started. I also strongly suggest that there are many among us that will not even notice (boiling frog?). I don't see how this will betray the most vulnerable?

What we need is discussion and the sharing of ideas in order to improve our lives and redress the balance of power. Like I have said this is a collaborative process through which we need to work. IMHO we are not up to the point of looking for new systems are (some people are and they are thinking about it and discussing it). We need different people playing different roles and as Russel said he is just a comedian, most people (me included) would be extremely suspicious if he suddenly started banging on about his manifesto.

What is he really promoting? If this is all about self promotion then surely he would be better off carrying on his Hollywood career and rubbing shoulders with the glitterati. He has said that he was involved in that world and found it unfulfilling. I must confess that so far I haven't found a reason to doubt his reasons for doing what he is doing. Maybe i am more trusting and less cynical than others (Although i highly doubt this), maybe I will come to realise that he is charlatan and is only in it for his own gain, who knows?

I am off for a few beers and a curry. Viva Le Revolution

It would appear he is promoting a system according to the Anarcho Syndicalism model.This is not a new model for society it has been around for decades. You have to ask yourself why hasnt humanity already implemented it yet then?Why have the majority rejected it?

Perhaps the simplest answer is it would not work.......why bother.

There is a philosopher Noam Chomsky that also advocates this system and says we will all demand it when the current system becomes as bad as it can possibly be.Brand has just taken this and is telling everyone the system is screwed when in fact it is just flawed and needs a fix. He is in my opinion a chancer,willing to play the game to serve the cause and marketability of Russell Brand

It concerns me so many people are buying into his rhetoric when i would much prefer to listen to someone who actually has come up with a plan that is workable with regard to fixing inequalities .

Have a VB for me

 

[BadFish]

It would appear he is promoting a system according to the Anarcho Syndicalism model.This is not a new model for society it has been around for decades. You have to ask yourself why hasnt humanity already implemented it yet then?Why have the majority rejected it?

Perhaps the simplest answer is it would not work.......why bother.

There is a philosopher Noam Chomsky that also advocates this system and says we will all demand it when the current system becomes as bad as it can possibly be.Brand has just taken this and is telling everyone the system is screwed when in fact it is just flawed and needs a fix. He is in my opinion a chancer,willing to play the game to serve the cause and marketability of Russell Brand

It concerns me so many people are buying into his rhetoric when i would much prefer to listen to someone who actually has come up with a plan that is workable with regard to fixing inequalities .

Have a VB for me

Do you know of such a plan? If not then we just have to keep working at it.

VB is piss and i won't be going near it

Noam is a man worth listening to very insightful and intelligent.

From what I understand Brand isn't putting forward any grand plan or idea, offering suggestions maybe but i don't think he considers himself in possession of the answers. I just don't think it is as simple as that.

 

[pastafarian]

Do you know of such a plan? If not then we just have to keep working at it.

VB is piss and i won't be going near it

Noam is a man worth listening to very insightful and intelligent.

From what I understand Brand isn't putting forward any grand plan or idea, offering suggestions maybe but i don't think he considers himself in possession of the answers. I just don't think it is as simple as that.

you are obviously some sort of loony communist hippy.........VB is the beer of champions!

 

[pastafarian]

From what I understand Brand isn't putting forward any grand plan or idea, offering suggestions maybe but i don't think he considers himself in possession of the answers. I just don't think it is as simple as that.

would you want to live under a system of Anarcho Syndicalism that has fulfilled its potential to be wages free ?

 

[BadFish]

you are obviously some sort of loony communist hippy.........VB is the beer of champions!

Not a communist enjoying a nice pint of mountain goat

 

[Hastings gull]

and that my friend is just how the ruling elite like it, to divert any attention away from themselves and their wrong doings and by drawing focus upon peoples differences instead.
remember wars line their pockets thus giving them further power and to achieve war you have to create a purpose for it.. people divide is one of the oldest tricks in the book and a strategy that's been used for decades.
unfortunately I see no answer to this because money is very power full tool. how do you convince an entire army that your leaders are screwing you over, how do you convince an entire army to lay down its weapons and how do you convince an entire army that everything will be fine and that you will have enough food on your plate to feed you and your family a lifetime.
it matters not whether you are right or left we all strive the same goal.. peacefulness and happiness.
merry xmas.

Good Morning BF,

This post is like so many others, wildly claiming that the 1%, corrupt bankers, throw in a few oligarchs, corrupt politicians are there to screw the rest of us. Whilst there is undoubted inequality, it is just too easy to throw around these accusations. Is there a list of names of those screwing us over -do "they" belong to a "screw-over" club with monthly meetings? Do they meet in dark corners somewhere in Westminster? Where do you draw the line - could there possibly be 2% or 10%? I am certainly not saying that there is no greed -there is and always will be, whether we like it or not - but it is far too simplistic to claim for example that this anonymous 1% draw focus on our differences. Surely we do that to ourselves and there is no better advocate of combative debate than your good self -largely we agree, of course, so you don't aim it at me!

And then reading through what could be done, it is quite clear that of the many posts, no one is really clear as to a workable solution for "improvement" - yes good old Rus talks of his archaic sydneyism and others talk about how "we need to get people to do " etc. It is of course very difficult. If we do not like greed, then fair enough, (though I suspect that we are all happy to be that shade greedy ourselves!) let's have a brave new world, and we get rid of the 1% (shoot? hang? send to colonies? forcibly strip of assets) how are we going to prevent this evil 1% from ever asserting itself again? People are naturally resourceful and the majority will work hard for themselves and their families. In so doing, they will gradually accrue wealth, largely through their own endeavour, and perhaps with a spot of corruption on the way,so how are we going to keep us all equal?

 

[Hastings gull]

No I am not suggesting any alternative because as you say they are not workable. I do think that there is a workable system out there but I am yet to hear about it. IMHO democracy is an excellent system it is just that the *******ised shell of democracy that we currently endure serves no-one but the 1%. We have a system in place that has worked and should work okay it has just been manipulated by those in power for their own ends.

My thinking is that with our system the people are still the key to powerful retaining their power, they have just become highly skilled at distracting us and keeping us both too busy and too apathetic to fight back. Perhaps Brand will increase the ground swell of opinion and unite those of us that see it and give a shit to make a difference.

Sadly I suspect that we will continue to highlight each other's failings and concentrate on the things that divide us rather than coming together to work out a solution to our common problem. We don't like Russel because he is too rich, too egocentric and too annoying, We don't like Bono because he is a cock, We don't like Geldof because he is scruffy, We don't like the occupy movement because they are too unwashed and too dreadlocky, we don't like Anonymous because they are too maverik, we don't like UKIP because they are too racist, you don't like me because i am too much of a lefty, I don't like you because you are too far right, no one likes this paragraph because it is too sanctamonious and preachy. Yet all of us, apparently know what the real problem is. Are we too divided and too focussed on each other faults to do anything about it?

I liked your summary in the final para -yes, I am sure that this is what large numbers think. But your first para sums up the nebulous nature of many posts. Plenty of talk about 1% and manipulation, as it is a good soundbite, but what exactly do you mean? Why does democracy serve only the 1%? If it is this clear-cut, and those at the voting booths have a regular chance to "get rid" of the nasty 1%, then why has there not been a huge groundswell of opinion to do precisely that?

 

[brighton fella]

Good Morning BF,

This post is like so many others, wildly claiming that the 1%, corrupt bankers, throw in a few oligarchs, corrupt politicians are there to screw the rest of us. Whilst there is undoubted inequality, it is just too easy to throw around these accusations. Is there a list of names of those screwing us over -do "they" belong to a "screw-over" club with monthly meetings? Do they meet in dark corners somewhere in Westminster? Where do you draw the line - could there possibly be 2% or 10%? I am certainly not saying that there is no greed -there is and always will be, whether we like it or not - but it is far too simplistic to claim for example that this anonymous 1% draw focus on our differences. Surely we do that to ourselves and there is no better advocate of combative debate than your good self -largely we agree, of course, so you don't aim it at me!

And then reading through what could be done, it is quite clear that of the many posts, no one is really clear as to a workable solution for "improvement" - yes good old Rus talks of his archaic sydneyism and others talk about how "we need to get people to do " etc. It is of course very difficult. If we do not like greed, then fair enough, (though I suspect that we are all happy to be that shade greedy ourselves!) let's have a brave new world, and we get rid of the 1% (shoot? hang? send to colonies? forcibly strip of assets) how are we going to prevent this evil 1% from ever asserting itself again? People are naturally resourceful and the majority will work hard for themselves and their families. In so doing, they will gradually accrue wealth, largely through their own endeavour, and perhaps with a spot of corruption on the way,so how are we going to keep us all equal?

the 1% are the fed who were the original architects of this whole shady project from the very beginning, plus members of sinister organisation's such as skull and bones, illuminate, a few Bilderberg members and various family dynasties such as the rockefeller's rothchild's etc who are all guilty of having blood on their hands and are known for pulling the strings of president's prime minister's politician's etc.

my real understanding of this came to light after discovering 9/11 was an inside job, it was then my entire outlook completely changed. had you of asked me this question a couple of years back to be perfectly honest with you I wouldn't of had a clue as to what you were droning on about. most probably thought to myself what type of nut job could possibly believe in sh*t like this the loon must be off his effin trolley.
surprising to see what a couple of years can do to someone.

 

[brighton fella]

Normally i would take you on with regards to this NWO stuff,but thats for another thread at another time,this one is actually turning out to be quite interesting and doesnt deserve a diversionary binfest

happy yulefest

I wish.. im hooked on frigging antibiotic's over xmas. been given strict orders by the quack to lay off all booze over xmas due to a suffering liver.
NWO another time that's fine with me.
happy xmas.

 

[brighton fella]

Merry Christmas to you too.

I am seeing signs we are getting somewhere with this and can maybe make a change.

most certainly my leftie friend most certainly
be my pleasure to assist.

 

[symyjym]

Like I said credibility is in the eye of the beholder. For me his message is not diminished by mistakes he has previously made and apologised for.

The internet is merely tool (as is Russel) that can be used by the 'revolution', it still needs many other people to perform many other roles. To me, within such a movement everyone should be welcome to do as much or a little as they can and to offer whatever they can to assist. Russel Brand is only one part of creating the change that we would like to see. I see little point of dismissing or discrediting someone who is saying things that ring true and who has something to offer such a cause.

If we all stopped regurgitating second hand information then lets face it nothing would be said. We are all just demented parrots.

Well you're right about one thing.

 

[Nibble]

Russell Brand is a dickhead.

 

[Triggaaar]

He actually said that not 'everybody' has to work rather than than nobody has to work.

He said "we've reached a point in history where we don't need everyone to work hard anymore", and I'm simply saying that we still need plenty of people to work hard, and they won't do so unless they're paid more than others.

The system may be better than anything we have had before but that doesn't mean that it cannot be improved.

No one said otherwise. Mustafa said it was a broken system and we need radical change, and I'm saying that while the system has faults, and there is too much inequality, it's not a completely broken system.

 

[brighton fella]

Russell Brand is a dickhead.

and you aint then.
merry xmas.