Rumour of Murder at Scouse derby

[fork me]

Can't be bothered to read that but if you are suggesting that Hillsborough was the fault of the fans then you are wrong, end of.

...and herein lies the problem with much in our society. How can you possibly "know" if you can't even be bothered to read the reports. That one looked spot on to me. Mainly the fault of gross negligence by the police, but some element of responsibility has to be shared by the fans crowding in at the back.

One thing it is very clear on, is that it wasn;t the fault of the people at the front who took the brunt of it.

 

[fork me]

Trouble at Sunderland as well

I lived there for a year, there's ALWAYS trouble at derbies up there. The makems and takems hate each other.

 

[Aldo]

...and herein lies the problem with much in our society. How can you possibly "know" if you can't even be bothered to read the reports. That one looked spot on to me. Mainly the fault of gross negligence by the police, but some element of responsibility has to be shared by the fans crowding in at the back.

One thing it is very clear on, is that it wasn;t the fault of the people at the front who took the brunt of it.

Believe you me I've done plenty of research and read many reports, I just couldn't be bothered to read that post as to me it seemed it was going to blame the fans, which is incorrect, so I couldn't see the point in reading it.

 

[Aldo]

Aldo - are you a Scouse Seagull or just a Scouse?

Well I'm a season ticket holder, and have travelled to countless away games for years, spending major amounts of time and money following Brighton. But you decide.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I read the article and agree with Bwian.

That article matches your bias towards Liverpool fans. Difficult for you to be objective and neutral following your opening couple of sentences so I'll disregard your cut and pasted article if it's OK with you? I know many Liverpool fans and also some neutrals who were there that day and your 'story' gets nowhere near the truth. If you want to be taken seriously when making comments about the deaths of 96 football fans, please at least do some research before posting crap like the above article.

 

[Albumen]

Anyone using Hillsborough to have a go at scousers is pretty sick and I question whether they're a football fan at all.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Anyone using Hillsborough to have a go at scousers is pretty sick and I question whether they're a football fan at all.

Well I'm not having a go at all using Hillsborough but as the subject was brought up and having read and watched many a programme on the issue I posted which to me was a subjective view, one that still put the main blame on the police and also agreed that a new review of all the facts.

A balanced view is always better and results in a fairer appraisal.

My comments on how I find Liverpool fans are as a whole are my observations having been to Liverpool on numerous occasions, for that nothing will change my view.

 

[nwgull]

I don't think anyone has ever blamed the behaviour of the fans who were trapped on the terrace have they? My understanding is that it was combination of events caused by mistakes made by the police, but that these mistakes were initiated by the behaviour of fans turning up late. Trouble is that any hint of critisising these late fans is seen as blaming the 96 who tragically died. I wonder if any of the hundreds (thousands?) of fans who turned up late and ticketless in the hope that they could jump or storm the turnstiles ever feel any sense if guilt that they probably contributed to the chain of events that day.

 

[Jimbo.GRFC]

Nothing in local press to date

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news//tm_headline=police-investigating-after-incident-outside-king-harry-pub-before-liverpool-fc-v-everton-fc-merseyside-derby%26method=full%26objectid=27997413%26siteid=100252-name_page.html

Local press I'll think they will swerve the story, deny it and dont upset half of merseyside....Dogs the lot

 

[crodonilson]

Shame supporters cannot act responsibly, if this type of trouble continues the FA should make these games be played behind closed doors which is a crying shame for the TV audience and the vast majority of people in attendance.

 

[User removed 4]

I can only speak as i find , and i think scousers( not liverpool fans) have one of the most undeserved reputations in the country, i've never found them anything but friendly and a good laugh, i've been seperated from my scouse mates in the centre of liverpool at 3 iin the morning , i had to ask the way to the cab rank in my london accent and a bloke went out of his way to show me where it was, top people scousers.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

As a neutral I attended a Chelsea v. Liverpool evening game in 1985 at Stamford Bridge, and can assure you that the atmosphere outside the away turnstiles that evening was the most frightening I've experienced at a football match. When the turnstiles were closed Liverpool fans just decided to climb over them to get into the ground. In the end me and my mates had had enough and decided to head home.

I also attended another game from the Shed end the following year and witnessed Liverpool fans climbing over the fencing from the North Stand away end into the segregated area towards Chelsea fans in the West Stand ( much like they did at Heysel ).

I'll conclude that Liverpool had a sizeable chunk amongst their away following then that believed they could enter the ground regardless of wether they had tickets or not. At Stamford Bridge I couldn't see any sign of the Met but Chelsea ( IMHO ) correctly kept the gates well and firmly closed when there were clearly more fans trying to get in than turnstiles available. It doesn't surprise me than Hillsborough happened when you were surrounded by a largely inebriated bunch of people hell bent on getting in come hell or high water.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

As a neutral I attended a Chelsea v. Liverpool evening game in 1985 at Stamford Bridge, and can assure you that the atmosphere outside the away turnstiles that evening was the most frightening I've experienced at a football match. When the turnstiles were closed Liverpool fans just decided to climb over them to get into the ground. In the end me and my mates had had enough and decided to head home.

I also attended another game from the Shed end the following year and witnessed Liverpool fans climbing over the fencing from the North Stand away end into the segregated area towards Chelsea fans in the West Stand ( much like they did at Heysel ).

I'll conclude that Liverpool had a sizeable chunk amongst their away following then that believed they could enter the ground regardless of wether they had tickets or not. At Stamford Bridge I couldn't see any sign of the Met but Chelsea ( IMHO ) correctly kept the gates well and firmly closed when there were clearly more fans trying to get in than turnstiles available. It doesn't surprise me than Hillsborough happened when you were surrounded by a largely inebriated bunch of people hell bent on getting in come hell or high water.

Don't think it was just away games, I know a few Scousers that didn't miss a home game during their youth but never paid to get in the Kop. But if you even suggest that they contributed to the events of Hillsborough you become some hated ignorant twat. I shall bat the word ignorant back firmly in their court.

 

[Cloughie]

Anyone using Hillsborough to have a go at scousers is pretty sick and I question whether they're a football fan at all.

Agree 100%.

Also agree with Bushy. Having lived in that part of the world I can only speak positively about the inhabitants of Merseyside.

I’d suggest to anyone to read Hillsborough – the truth by Phil Scraton. It was actually first recommended to me on NSC.

 

[Easy 10]

Anyone who believes the behaviour of Liverpool fans outside the Leppings Lane end contributed absolutely NOTHING to the subsequent disaster that unfolded, is looking on with a rather one-eyed, myopic view I think.

Were those fans solely to blame ? Of course not. There were a number of factors and a number of decisions made that day which led to that tragedy. But the catalyst was ticketless fans arriving late, some drunk, and many hellbent on getting in as the game had kicked off. The CCTV footage alone backs that up.

Sorry, but those factors cannot just be ignored or brushed under the carpet.

 

[Dandyman]

Anyone using Hillsborough to have a go at scousers is pretty sick and I question whether they're a football fan at all.

Is the right answer.

I'm happy to take the piss out of Murkeyside for other reasons but to use Hillsborough as an excuse is just sick.

 

[Dandyman]

Anyone who believes the behaviour of Liverpool fans outside the Leppings Lane end contributed absolutely NOTHING to the subsequent disaster that unfolded, is looking on with a rather one-eyed, myopic view I think.

Were those fans solely to blame ? Of course not. There were a number of factors and a number of decisions made that day which led to that tragedy. But the catalyst was ticketless fans arriving late, some drunk, and many hellbent on getting in as the game had kicked off. The CCTV footage alone backs that up.

Sorry, but those factors cannot just be ignored or brushed under the carpet.

No one would have been killed if the Police had been in control of the situation, if there had not been fences and if the attitude of those in authority was not to regard us all as the "effluent tendancy" to use that little prick Moynihan's expression.

 

[Aldo]

I can only speak as i find , and i think scousers( not liverpool fans) have one of the most undeserved reputations in the country, i've never found them anything but friendly and a good laugh, i've been seperated from my scouse mates in the centre of liverpool at 3 iin the morning , i had to ask the way to the cab rank in my london accent and a bloke went out of his way to show me where it was, top people scousers.

Glad to read something positive on here for once, much correct as well.

 

[Bwian]

Don't think it was just away games, I know a few Scousers that didn't miss a home game during their youth but never paid to get in the Kop. But if you even suggest that they contributed to the events of Hillsborough you become some hated ignorant twat. I shall bat the word ignorant back firmly in their court.

What a load of nonsense. Ask them how they managed to get in to The Kop without paying-that was virtually impossible long before they re-built it and is impossible now. Your anti-Scouse agenda is apparent and should be left at home if you want to discuss Hillsborough properly. Especially if we're all looking for a balanced view-or would that be a balanced view so long as it agrees with your views? You'd also do well not using The Sun as your source of information about Hillsborough.

 

[Aldo]

What a load of nonsense. Ask them how they managed to get in to The Kop without paying-that was virtually impossible long before they re-built it and is impossible now. Your anti-Scouse agenda is apparent and should be left at home if you want to discuss Hillsborough properly. Especially if we're all looking for a balanced view-or would that be a balanced view so long as it agrees with your views? You'd also do well not using The Sun as your source of information about Hillsborough.

Anyone who does so, opinion on this matter means nothing, absolutley nothing.