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Rules relating to loan players?
- Thread starter drew
- Start date
Mutts Nuts
New member
- Oct 30, 2011
- 4,918
no mention of that in the rules
theonesmith
Well-known member
- Oct 27, 2008
- 2,337
The whole system is flawed, but that isn't breaking football league rules is it?
Brighton Breezy
New member
I think the loan system needs reworking.
A maximum or four loan players at any one time with clubs having to show that the player's wages with his parent club are at most 10% higher than the new club's top earner.
A maximum or four loan players at any one time with clubs having to show that the player's wages with his parent club are at most 10% higher than the new club's top earner.
theonesmith
Well-known member
- Oct 27, 2008
- 2,337
That sounds like a good system..
- Thread starter
- #26
Nobody is saying there shouldn't be a loan system, just that it shouldn't be abused. Whatever rules apply between English clubs should apply to loans from other countries.
skipper734
Registered ruffian
That's better. This could well be taken care of under the new financial rules. Clubs like Man City probably shouldn't be able to afford the wages of expensive players, considered dead wood, on their books. Provided the FA have even thought about it.
Brighton Breezy
New member
Sorry, I meant anyone moaning about the current state of the loan system.
Mutts Nuts
New member
- Oct 30, 2011
- 4,918
53.2.6 Standard Loans which subsequently become permanent transfers (which can occur any time during the period of the Standard Loan) shall not count against a Club's quota of such Standard Loans for that Season.
By the above i take it that Watford must sign 2 of the loan players from saturday before the end of the season,any body at the fa policing this,is there a get out clause for every rule in the book or is it just this one.You could not make it up
Hmm, I think a bit of edifying is in order.
Firstly, season long foreign loans count as transfers, not loans, which is why we can field as many as we like. Secondly they all - with the exception of chalobah - have a price agreed at the end of the season should we want them. Thirdly, they all wanted to come, none of them were forced. Abdi, forestieri, vydra and pudil have all agreed contracts already to be announced in January. Make no mistake, these are Watford players and if we want them we will sign them, which is why they do not play like loan players usually would. The only reason the majority of them weren't signed permanently in the first place was because of the transfer embargo during the late takeover.
As for the 'moral' carp - how is this any different to somebody buying millions of pounds worth of players? Nobody bats an eyelid when forest spend their millions with oil rich owners. We have obtained millions of pounds of players for squat, no financial risk or outlay from ourselves and players of true quality who are desperate to sign permanent deals for us, and if we can't afford them they will just be loaned to us again.
our owners simply moved existing playing assets to us instead of shelling out tens of millions. I fail to see the moral dilemma, it is more of a 'tin pot Watford aren't allowed to upset the applecart' dilemma as we found a way around the exclusive billionaire owner club which the top two divisions have become.
We are without a doubt in the best position of any club in the league. Run by a family who have taken two clubs to the top level by buying low and selling high using astute scouting and business deals. In their years at udinese they have taken them from bankruptcy in serie b to consistent champions league football while making over 100 million pounds profit. They took Granada from the Spanish third division to bbva survival in three seasons using a similar system to the one they are using with us.
Neuton can't get in the team in front of tommy hoban who debuted under zola.
We are in a unique, fortunate, honourable and above board position, and if it was successful we knew we would be the most evil team in the country, but that is fine. We have broken no rules and are no more immoral than Wigan, or yourselves. Our big money owner simply hasn't spent any money, that's all.
We spent years doing things the 'right' way, and whet was our reward? Big money owners buying other teams and pricing us out the market, losing our best academy prospects for the lowest bidder and then the big one EEEP, which made our whole business plan of producing British talent impossible. Now we can keep our best prospects and tell big money teams to f*** off when they bid for our kids.
Peace
Firstly, season long foreign loans count as transfers, not loans, which is why we can field as many as we like. Secondly they all - with the exception of chalobah - have a price agreed at the end of the season should we want them. Thirdly, they all wanted to come, none of them were forced. Abdi, forestieri, vydra and pudil have all agreed contracts already to be announced in January. Make no mistake, these are Watford players and if we want them we will sign them, which is why they do not play like loan players usually would. The only reason the majority of them weren't signed permanently in the first place was because of the transfer embargo during the late takeover.
As for the 'moral' carp - how is this any different to somebody buying millions of pounds worth of players? Nobody bats an eyelid when forest spend their millions with oil rich owners. We have obtained millions of pounds of players for squat, no financial risk or outlay from ourselves and players of true quality who are desperate to sign permanent deals for us, and if we can't afford them they will just be loaned to us again.
our owners simply moved existing playing assets to us instead of shelling out tens of millions. I fail to see the moral dilemma, it is more of a 'tin pot Watford aren't allowed to upset the applecart' dilemma as we found a way around the exclusive billionaire owner club which the top two divisions have become.
We are without a doubt in the best position of any club in the league. Run by a family who have taken two clubs to the top level by buying low and selling high using astute scouting and business deals. In their years at udinese they have taken them from bankruptcy in serie b to consistent champions league football while making over 100 million pounds profit. They took Granada from the Spanish third division to bbva survival in three seasons using a similar system to the one they are using with us.
Neuton can't get in the team in front of tommy hoban who debuted under zola.
We are in a unique, fortunate, honourable and above board position, and if it was successful we knew we would be the most evil team in the country, but that is fine. We have broken no rules and are no more immoral than Wigan, or yourselves. Our big money owner simply hasn't spent any money, that's all.
We spent years doing things the 'right' way, and whet was our reward? Big money owners buying other teams and pricing us out the market, losing our best academy prospects for the lowest bidder and then the big one EEEP, which made our whole business plan of producing British talent impossible. Now we can keep our best prospects and tell big money teams to f*** off when they bid for our kids.
Peace
Last edited:
theonesmith
Well-known member
- Oct 27, 2008
- 2,337
And if it works and you do well then maybe other Championship clubs will adopt it, and us fans will be lucky enough to see inter reserves vs udinese reserves, vs barca reserves vs munich reserves..
Mutts Nuts
New member
- Oct 30, 2011
- 4,918
The rules clearly state that the loaned players over and above the 5 allowed must be signed by the end of the Season.Hope fully when you fail to meet this obligation you will be deducted points as punisment and not merely fined
.
What it Watford buy 2 players for 1p at the end of the season then sell them back to Udinese for 1p?
This. And good English players will have even fewer first team opportunities.
Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ
Hove / Παρος
Both cunning and ingenious!
Uncle C
Well-known member
You had your turn, so dont take the moral high ground. Did anyone mention Elton John?
skipper734
Registered ruffian
Watford..... Conveniently exploiting lots of loopholes. Most of which are specifically banned between Clubs and Owners in this Country, however you attempt to justify it.
HastingsSeagull
Well-known member
Starbucks, Amazon and Jimmy Carr did nothing wrong in the law's eyes either........ look how public opinion went in their cases........... not to mention all the MPs who did things within the rules with expenses and family members etc.
BensGrandad
New member
Assuming that Watford do buy some of those players they will have to do so by 31st Jan when the window closes because they cannot buy anybody after then and still do it by the end of the season. Ist FEB could prove interesting if they haven't bought them by then.
genre b. good
New member
- Oct 22, 2012
- 104
Presumably they said that when they signed? Not really a surprise.
Lots of people bat an eyelid at Forest, Man City, etc, and most rational people hate that aspect of modern football (see Stand AMF). Being no different to a bad thing isn't a good thing. Obtaining millions of pounds of players with no financial risk is pretty much spending beyond your means. If the Pozzo family leave you will struggle and they will presumably move a lot of assets back to Udinese first.
But you still have rich owners, they just spend by proxy through Udinese.
Highly astute scouting is great, and replacing your best players every year with cheaper ones is great in principle - but using Arsenal as an example, it is clear that it doesn't always work. Even if the scouts keep delivering, the bigger clubs will either take the scouts or take the players first.
Bollocks, they just spent it at Udinese rather than at Watford. Similarly, if Udinese start having financial problems then they will filter through to Watford and players won't be the only assets moving between the clubs.
Erm you were in the premiership recently - how is that different to any reward you may get out of this arrangement? You still won't be able to compete with the top premier clubs and your plan of importing foreign talent just means that bigger clubs will take your players and your owners will get a bit more money for them. It's a bit like West Ham signing Tevez and Mascherano.
But you can't, the business model you describe above involves selling the players off ("high") or moving them back to Udinese/Granada. The Pozzo family even said as much, they want to stop you selling people off cheaply but they still expect the players to leave - just to the bigger clubs. Out of interest, who have Watford sold in recent years? Only one I really know of is Ashley Young, who for £9 million would presumably still be sold under the Pozzo plan.
If this happened to my club, I would feel considerably disconnected from the club I grew up with. Same if they changed the colour of the kit on a whim, or moved the club to a different town.