He already has - against Leicester, IIRC - but he's still 100% well in credit for me. He's earned us more points than the ones lost against Leicester.
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[NSC] Robert Sanchez
- Thread starter figgis
- Start date
Jesus Gul
Well-known member
- Feb 23, 2004
- 5,513
me too. well in credit
watching the Leeds Liverpool highlights the highly thought after Meslier made multiple big mistakes in just one half - Bob's made just one this year i think
blue-shifted
Banned
Your 2 points are spot on.
Keepers mature later but peak later than outfield players
Our defence have shielded him magnificently. Imagine being in your first year in the big time and in front of you, you have Dunky, Webby and Veltman et al letting high calibre opponents nowhere near you. What a way to get started in your career. When he has been called into action he's been brilliant of course.
Badger Boy
Mr Badger
- Jan 28, 2016
- 3,658
No, I don't think it's an "unbelievable" decision. Potter would have seen him in training every day, every week. It must have been obvious how well he was developing. I know Sanchez had some injury problems at the start of the season, but as soon as he was fit and training regularly it must have been pretty clear how calm he was and how good he is. Ryan has been below a good standard for 12 months and his place was vulnerable long before he was finally replaced.
At the start of last season, Leeds questioned why they had signed a young CB from Brighton to be a key player for them having only had short spells at lower levels previously. The management knew how good the player was and he instantly proved it. The coaches would have seen how good Sanchez was and how ready he was. I struggle to believe Ryan outperformed him in training.
blue-shifted
Banned
Possibly. It wasn't obvious to us though. Reports from Rochdale and Forest Green weren't glowing.
It's a great lesson to learn though, that progress with young players isn't always linear
schmunk
Why oh why oh why?
Rubbish, he was NOTHING before Bielsa. NOTHING.
Yep he has helped to stop the bed wetting
You really don’t think it’s an unbelievable decision to drop your number one mainstay goalkeeper in favour of your young third choice one? Who’s last competitive games were in the lower leagues?
Have to disagree on that. You’re taking credit away from the coaches and manager, that’s a ballsy decision in my book. Absolutely vindicated of course.
Uh_huh_him
Well-known member
- Sep 28, 2011
- 12,117
Yeah this!
That's a full international goalkeeper that was dropped as well.
Also I'm not sure how much of him Potter would have seen. I think the keepers do their training separately from the main group.
Any training matches with the first team squad may well have seen Ryan and Steele featured rather than Sanchez, plus he has been out on loan for the past two seasons.
However after hearing Murray's comments around training with Sanchez, I'm sure many people in the club were aware of his potential.
Big difference between potential and ability to play at the top level though.
Stato
Well-known member
- Dec 21, 2011
- 7,367
By the way, in Sanchez's 20 games since Potter made him first choice, he has played fifteen games against the other 14 and averages a clean sheet every third game. He has played six times against the 'Big (mistake) 6' and kept a clean sheet in half of them. Its obviously not just Big Rob, but our defensive record, particularly in the big matches since the Leicester game spelled the end for Mat Ryan has been excellent. We've conceded 17 goals in 20 games. Against Liverpool, Man U, Man City, Spurs, Arsenal & Chelsea: 4 goals in 6 games.
Watching a young Sanchez, the first impressions was he was going to be tall and athletic. By the time he went out on loan he would have been close to his ful height, but he was like a bean pole. The change in body shape is especially challenging for a goal keeper, as it affects your balance, so the odd mistake in this period is understandable.
Fast forward to this season and the Chelsea friendly was his lucky break in more than one way. Maty Ryan played the first half and Christian Walton started the second half and was expected to be Ryan's main challenge. Walton started nervously and after 10 minutes dithered with the ball at his feet, got tackled and bust his ankle.
Sanchez would not have been expecting to play that day, but came on as calm as you like and put in a confident performance.
I suspect the first time Ryan was dropped was a disciplinary matter, based on nothing other than speculation as to who the second player was involved in a training ground punch up. Would a fit Walton have got the nod that day? We will never know.
Playing an inexperienced keeper once is fine especially if you know he has already faced Man Utd (with Rochdale) and Chelsea and not been phased. The braver decision I think was giving him a run of games. It has paid of handsomely for Potter. If Sanchez suffers a dip in form, there is plenty of evidence now he is a bloody fine keeper and I think most fans will give him the space he needs to play himself back into form.
Fast forward to this season and the Chelsea friendly was his lucky break in more than one way. Maty Ryan played the first half and Christian Walton started the second half and was expected to be Ryan's main challenge. Walton started nervously and after 10 minutes dithered with the ball at his feet, got tackled and bust his ankle.
Sanchez would not have been expecting to play that day, but came on as calm as you like and put in a confident performance.
I suspect the first time Ryan was dropped was a disciplinary matter, based on nothing other than speculation as to who the second player was involved in a training ground punch up. Would a fit Walton have got the nod that day? We will never know.
Playing an inexperienced keeper once is fine especially if you know he has already faced Man Utd (with Rochdale) and Chelsea and not been phased. The braver decision I think was giving him a run of games. It has paid of handsomely for Potter. If Sanchez suffers a dip in form, there is plenty of evidence now he is a bloody fine keeper and I think most fans will give him the space he needs to play himself back into form.
warmleyseagull
Well-known member
Maybe, more like he has cleared up afterwards.
Badger Boy
Mr Badger
- Jan 28, 2016
- 3,658
Personally, I think a blind man would have spotted how good Sanchez was just by watching him. There is no chance that Ben Roberts wasn't reporting back to Potter how well he was performing in training and how worthy he was of consideration. Yes, it's always a brave decision to blood a young player but isn't that what Potter's all about? If you're good enough, you earn your place? I don't believe Sanchez wasn't worthy of the place earlier than he inherited it and personally I think he should have kept the shirt after the strong performance against Tottenham.
Maty Ryan couldn't have had any complaints about his losing his place at the time, and he certainly can't have any complaints about Sanchez being our number 1 now. Statistics don't always tell a fair story on a player's ability, but I don't think there's a single measure where Ryan betters Sanchez at the moment with the singular exception of match experience.
Maty Ryan couldn't have had any complaints about his losing his place at the time, and he certainly can't have any complaints about Sanchez being our number 1 now. Statistics don't always tell a fair story on a player's ability, but I don't think there's a single measure where Ryan betters Sanchez at the moment with the singular exception of match experience.
Posted these in another thread, but (more) relevant here as well:
Dropped Points comparison - Ryan vs Sanchez 2020/21
Classifying dropped points as being:
3 dropped = ahead, and then losing
2 dropped = ahead, and then drawing
1 dropped = behind, equalising, and then losing
Overall, our dropped points picture looks like this:
Dropped 3 points - 5 times
Ryan - 3
Sanchez - 2
Dropped 2 points - 3 times
Ryan - 0
Sanchez - 3
Dropped 1 point - 4 times
Ryan - 2
Sanchez - 2
Of Ryan's 11 matches, we had a lead in 5. Lost 3, Won 2. Conversion rate of a lead to a win of 40%, and overall from a position of leading with Ryan as keeper we only converted 1.2 ppg (6 points from a potential 15).
Of Sanchez's 21 matches, we had a lead in 10. Lost 2, Drawn 3, Won 5. Conversion rate of a lead to a win of 50%, and with Sanchez as keeper we converted at a rate of 1.8 ppg (18 points from a potential 30).
Overall, with Ryan we dropped on average 1 ppg. With Sanchez we've dropped just 0.67 ppg.
So Sanchez clearly ahead.
(Side observation: Bringing in Sanchez hasn't changed how often we find ourselves leading. It's only changed how often we actually score points from those situations.)
Clean Sheets (already mentioned in a Tweet earlier in thread)
Ryan - 18% of matches played (2 from 11)
Sanchez - 43% of matches played (9 from 21)
Sanchez ahead again.
Red Cards
With Ryan we had 3 in 11
With Sanchez 1 in 21
IMO probably indicative of increase confidence in the team - they don't feel as much of a need to make the desperate challenge to protect Sanchez that they did with Ryan.
Shots on target resulting in goals
OK, very rough comparison of Ryan and Sanchez this season (very rough because I'm only looking at how many shots on target, I've not got how many of those were blocked rather than saved by the keeper, and I've left a couple of own goals in which is probably unfair on the keepers):
Ryan
Faced 3.1 shots on target per match
Conceded 1.7 goals per match
Equates to 55.9% of shots on target resulting in a goal
Sanchez
Faced 3.3 shots on target per match
Conceded 0.9 goals per match
Equates to 27.1% of shots on target resulting in a goal
Few observations:
If Ryan faced a lot of shots on target, we also conceded heavily (eg Everton - 6 shots and 4 goals; Chelsea - 5 shots, 3 goals; Leicester - 6 and 3). Sanchez has been a lot more resilient in the face of a barrage (Man C - 6 shots, 1 goal; Spurs - 4 and 0; Burnley - 7 and 1; Man U - 7 and 2).
So again, Sanchez wins out by a significant margin.
Dropped Points comparison - Ryan vs Sanchez 2020/21
Classifying dropped points as being:
3 dropped = ahead, and then losing
2 dropped = ahead, and then drawing
1 dropped = behind, equalising, and then losing
Overall, our dropped points picture looks like this:
Dropped 3 points - 5 times
Ryan - 3
Sanchez - 2
Dropped 2 points - 3 times
Ryan - 0
Sanchez - 3
Dropped 1 point - 4 times
Ryan - 2
Sanchez - 2
Of Ryan's 11 matches, we had a lead in 5. Lost 3, Won 2. Conversion rate of a lead to a win of 40%, and overall from a position of leading with Ryan as keeper we only converted 1.2 ppg (6 points from a potential 15).
Of Sanchez's 21 matches, we had a lead in 10. Lost 2, Drawn 3, Won 5. Conversion rate of a lead to a win of 50%, and with Sanchez as keeper we converted at a rate of 1.8 ppg (18 points from a potential 30).
Overall, with Ryan we dropped on average 1 ppg. With Sanchez we've dropped just 0.67 ppg.
So Sanchez clearly ahead.
(Side observation: Bringing in Sanchez hasn't changed how often we find ourselves leading. It's only changed how often we actually score points from those situations.)
Clean Sheets (already mentioned in a Tweet earlier in thread)
Ryan - 18% of matches played (2 from 11)
Sanchez - 43% of matches played (9 from 21)
Sanchez ahead again.
Red Cards
With Ryan we had 3 in 11
With Sanchez 1 in 21
IMO probably indicative of increase confidence in the team - they don't feel as much of a need to make the desperate challenge to protect Sanchez that they did with Ryan.
Shots on target resulting in goals
OK, very rough comparison of Ryan and Sanchez this season (very rough because I'm only looking at how many shots on target, I've not got how many of those were blocked rather than saved by the keeper, and I've left a couple of own goals in which is probably unfair on the keepers):
Ryan
Faced 3.1 shots on target per match
Conceded 1.7 goals per match
Equates to 55.9% of shots on target resulting in a goal
Sanchez
Faced 3.3 shots on target per match
Conceded 0.9 goals per match
Equates to 27.1% of shots on target resulting in a goal
Few observations:
If Ryan faced a lot of shots on target, we also conceded heavily (eg Everton - 6 shots and 4 goals; Chelsea - 5 shots, 3 goals; Leicester - 6 and 3). Sanchez has been a lot more resilient in the face of a barrage (Man C - 6 shots, 1 goal; Spurs - 4 and 0; Burnley - 7 and 1; Man U - 7 and 2).
So again, Sanchez wins out by a significant margin.
AZ Gull
@SeagullsAcademy @seagullsacademy.bsky.social
I've yet to see Sanchez have a goal-creating touch in the opposition box in the last minute of a match....Sanchez OUT.
Badger Boy
Mr Badger
- Jan 28, 2016
- 3,658
I've yet to see Sanchez have a goal-creating touch in the opposition box in the last minute of a match....Sanchez OUT.
To be fair, Ryan's celebrations are better than Sanchez's as well! Fundamentals.
This is one of those situations where both the statistics and eye test bear out that we have a much better keeper now than the one we started the season with.
On top of that, the unmeasurable confidence he seems to generate in those around him has made a huge difference to us.
Stato
Well-known member
- Dec 21, 2011
- 7,367
Some good stuff in your post, but this bit is an overreach. The three red cards with MR in goal were an accidental reckless challenge by Bis when we were 3-0 up at Newcastle, a lunge by Dunk in Palace's penalty area in an attempt to get a late winner from a corner and a dive by Grealish that got Lamptey a second yellow. None of them follow the pattern you imply.