Road deaths increased by 3% compared to the year ending June 2013, to 1,760.

[Stat Brother]

I guess in simplest and broadest terms we ought to take into account a lack of care and consideration.
The selfish gene goes through all walks of life, or in this case modes of transport.
You only have to look at the other thread to see me, me, me, them, them, them.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

The penalties for using a phone, especially for checking email/texts should be significantly increased. At present there is little deterrent, but if you were caught and given an immediate 12 months ban it would have a significant effect surely?

Agreed.

Also I can't understand why so many still arn't using hands free devices if they really have to take an important call whilst driving, (can't see the need to take the call there and then rather than call back later when stopped) - it's not like they are expensive to get or incompatible with modern mobile phones. Use one and lock the phone in the boot of the car so they arn't tempted to text would be a good start.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

I do a lot of walking and cycling and I second everything you say here. I have seen some really appalling driving just lately. Only last week someone decided to mounted the curb whilst I was walking along the pavement with my daughter. Why did he mount the curb, because he couldn't be bothered to wait for the car in front of him to turn, so drove around the inside. Think it's about time drivers got prosecuted a lot more. Your right about tailgating, driving my wife to work every morning people are driving far too close to each other. It's happened to me. A couple of months back driver behind was swearing, waving his hands because I wasn't going fast enough.

Another one is at roundabouts where there are 2 lanes and the left hand lane straight lines the roundabout giving the other road user no room to go around the roundabout too and then the driver straight lining it gets sweary if you use your horn to warn him you are there and they are about to crash into you.

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

Too many things to do in our free time compared to even a decade ago meaning people rush home more to take part in those activities (multiple tv channels, internet, mobile phones, home entertainment systems and computer games, etc) ??

Peoples thoughts have become more about how they use and maximise their leisure time rather than having more of a balance and feeling more able to take their time to do things (fear of missing out now must surely be higher than in previous generations)


Also, maybe we need more public information films on really basic things once again?

Unfortunately there is a lack of that precious commodity known as 'common sense', so many punters have to be drip fed messages or shocked into changing their driving behaviour.

I agree that there have been some excellent public information films - often themed around seasonal drink / drive campaigns and other safety messages. Many such films are graphic and use shock tactics to try to make an impact on the target audience.

There are also excellent educational campaigns targeting specific risk groups such as young / new drivers - but resources for these schemes are under increasing pressure, which is sad.

I agree it wouldn't do any harm to see a few more of these messages, as long as familiarity does not breed contempt. However many road users seem to have an 'I'm invincible, it won't happen to me' attitude but don't realise that there could be a life changing incident waiting for them just around the next bend. That's why there should be more visible road policing to target the arrogant and wilful drivers who just don't care.

How many people who think they are 'good drivers' but routinely use excess speed for the road conditions, tailgate others and / or use their mobile phone (some all at the same time!)??

 

[Bruntburger]

If your driving over the speed limit and kill someone then you go to prison.

If your driving under the speed limit and kill someone you don't.

This is because without a witness to the accident the police can only rely on the cars computer record and measurements of brake marks, reaction time etc.. This gives them the speed but not the drivers actions at the time.

We need cameras fitted as standard in the dash towards the driver and forward facing on the road. Would not be an expensive addition during manufacturing and would drastically reduce accidents.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

I guess in simplest and broadest terms we ought to take into account a lack of care and consideration.
The selfish gene goes through all walks of life, or in this case modes of transport.
You only have to look at the other thread to see me, me, me, them, them, them.

A sad reflection on life that the only person that matters is number 1 and it's best to ignore everyone else and what they might need (of course there are exceptions) but it seems to be what can i get from life rather than what can i do to help others as well as myself. And i an afraid its not just on the road but everywhere now and if things don't go right, blame others including the state and not taking any personal responsibility any more (ie, it's the Polices fault for not catching enough to make it a valid deterrent, etc) There is a lack of pressure from society to make some things unacceptable anymore so that people tend not to do it.

 

[Stat Brother]

It's very easy to point the finger at the car, after all they are the ones primarily doing the killing.

But that isn't the only problem.
In an ideal world I'd rip up the entire urban and suburban infrastructure and start again.
Clearly that's not happening, but we need new initiatives, new ways of thinking, sadly anything requiring new significant funding is just never going to happen.

Plus I don't imagine dealing with issues in a solely punitive way gets the best responses.

 

[Stat Brother]

A sad reflection on life that the only person that matters is number 1 and it's best to ignore everyone else and what they might need (of course there are exceptions) but it seems to be what can i get from life rather than what can i do to help others as well as myself. And i an afraid its not just on the road but everywhere now and if things don't go right, blame others including the state and not taking any personal responsibility any more (ie, it's the Polices fault for not catching enough to make it a valid deterrent, etc) There is a lack of pressure from society to make some things unacceptable anymore so that people tend not to do it.

That's the kind of sentiment I've been getting close to but keep missing!

This afternoon I needed to nip to Tesco's Express to get some pasta.
Le Tour was at the 40 kms to go mark, I reckoned we could be there and back before the race hotted up.
We bundled into the car, I drove the 3 mile round trip, and probably speeded on route.

A completely pointless and unnecessary journey, but 'just popping out in the car' was my, a certifiable cyclist, default setting.
3 of us had to walk past 4 bikes to get to the car.

Yet writing this now won't mean next time, it won't happen, as I know next time it will.
I also know were we living in Holland, Denmark, Belgium, etc that journey would never have happened.

 

[beorhthelm]

or we could say "road deaths decrease 30% compared to year ending June 2009", and be very please with how we seem to have greatly improved road safety. further down that article it shows a 1% increase in traffic with 18% decrease in killed/seriously injured, compared to the average in 2005-09. clearly we are doing alot right. we do seem to have let ourselves down a bit in the past year, with a large increase in cyclist KSI, but also across the board.

with no mean to offend, i'm curious why there is so much focus on cyclists. 446 pedestrians kills, up 12% on 2013. and 339 motorcyclists. but i dont see die-ins held for either of these groups. nor do i think you'd read about their death in the paper, unless it was "vehicle ploughs into bus stop" type story. what is it about cyclists that make them more sensitive about their fellow breed?

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

It's very easy to point the finger at the car, after all they are the ones primarily doing the killing.

But that isn't the only problem.
In an ideal world I'd rip up the entire urban and suburban infrastructure and start again.
Clearly that's not happening, but we need new initiatives, new ways of thinking, sadly anything requiring new significant funding is just never going to happen.

Plus I don't imagine dealing with issues in a solely punitive way gets the best responses.

Agreed.

For many years the ideal first principles of road safety management were considered to be 'Engineering', 'Education' and 'Enforcement' - in that order.

Clearly it would be great to re-engineer our roads to make them more user friendly for all types of road user - as they seek to do in Holland. Some of their schemes are quite subtle and more environmental and psychological, but unfortunately this often the most expensive option. Some local authorities have embraced the principles into their planning policies, but are unable to carry this through because of financial pressures and other priorities.

'Enforcement' should be the last resort and will probably only apply to a minority - and therefore 'Education' is the most realistic option. The latest stats suggest there is more that could be done. However resources are under great pressure, despite achieving relatively positive and cost-effective outcomes.

I do agree that societal pressure as to what is considered acceptable behaviour (by all types of road user) could also have a greater role - and in which we could all play a conscious part. However I fear it will need some persuasive catalyst such as a series of high profile tragedies to gain widespread commitment. Even the recent cycling campaigns by Chris Boardman, The Times etc were very commendable but I sense these are losing momentum and 'impact'.

 

[cunning fergus]

For those enjoying vilifying people for going about their day

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...70826/quarterly-estimates-apr-to-jun-2014.pdf

There were 24,580 killed or seriously injured (KSI) casualties in the year ending June 2014, a 4 per cent increase compared with the previous year.


So far, and this is as of April, five people have died on the London roads, four of whom have been female - and all in collisions with HGVs. I believe this figure is now 10, with 8 being female Here are the details:

1 Stephanie Turner, Stamford Hill, January 20 The first person to die in 2015 was the 29-year-old physiotherapist, who was involved in a collision with a lorry on Amhurst Road, at the junction with Bethune Road. The driver was arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving and has since been released on bail. More than 200 cycle safety campaigners staged a ‘die-in’ protest a week after her death.

2 Akis Kolloras, Homerton High Street, February 2 Greek-born 34-year-old Akis Kollaros was killed after a collision with an HGV on Homerton High Street, at the junction with McIntosh Lane. Campaigners raised £6,000 to repatriate the music producer, who lived in Dalston, back to his home country.

3 Frederica Baldassa, Holborn, February 6 The second cyclist to die in a week in February was 26-year-old Italian fashion designer Frederica Baldassa, who was hit by a lorry around 9.20pm on a Friday night between Bloomsbury Square and Vernon Place. The driver stopped at the scene but was not arrested.

4 Claire Hitier-Abadie, Victoria, February 19 The fourth person to be killed was 36-year-old Claire Hitier-Abadie from Marylebone, who was crushed under a tipper truck on Victoria Street during rush-hour. The French-born mother-of-two was riding a Barclays Cycle Hire vehicle, making her the second person to die using a Boris Bike in London.

5 An unnamed woman, Lambeth Bridge, April 9 The as-yet-unnamed woman died in a collision with a lorry this morning.

Read more at: http://www.london24.com/news/cycling/london_cycle_deaths_2015_1_3964719
Copyright © LONDON24

There would appear to be lots of factors at play.............

http://www.mib.org.uk/NR/rdonlyres/...43ED87A7E7/0/NewsletterIssue12Final161106.pdf

What to do though.............what to do.

 

[Baldseagull]

I do a lot of walking and cycling and I second everything you say here. I have seen some really appalling driving just lately. Only last week someone decided to mounted the curb whilst I was walking along the pavement with my daughter. Why did he mount the curb, because he couldn't be bothered to wait for the car in front of him to turn, so drove around the inside. Think it's about time drivers got prosecuted a lot more. Your right about tailgating, driving my wife to work every morning people are driving far too close to each other. It's happened to me. A couple of months back driver behind was swearing, waving his hands because I wasn't going fast enough.

Most people are on the road because they are trying to get somewhere else, anything hindering that can become irritating. Twats pootling along at 15mph are a hazard, and if you really are in no hurry, why not pull over and let those that are get by safely?

Edit: did not mean for that to read quite how it does, not calling you a **** or suggesting that you were driving ridiculously slowly, but some do and wonder why everyone else seems to be so impatient.

 

[Diego Napier]

If your driving over the speed limit and kill someone then you go to prison.

If your driving under the speed limit and kill someone you don't.

This is because without a witness to the accident the police can only rely on the cars computer record and measurements of brake marks, reaction time etc.. This gives them the speed but not the drivers actions at the time.

We need cameras fitted as standard in the dash towards the driver and forward facing on the road. Would not be an expensive addition during manufacturing and would drastically reduce accidents.

I think the problem is that whilst individual accidents are reported, the enormity of the total number of deaths and serious accidents seems to be largely absent from public awareness. If those numbers of lives were being lost in say industrial accidents or train accidents then the government would be under serious pressure to act.

It would be relatively simple for the government to compel the introduction of existing technology into new cars to modify bad driving behaviours e.g. mobile phone disabled if engine running, black box recording of driving performance, engine management system rendering tailgating impossible, in-car speed governor triggered by speed limit signs etc.etc. Whilst I'm convinced that eventually all these kinds of safety features will be standard, I'm equally sure that grasping that kind of nettle is currently well beyond the populist will of all our political parties.

 

[beorhthelm]

and i dont know why everyone thinks other countries have fixed this problem, we have one of the lowest road fatality rates in the world, by either population or number of cars. lower than most the europeans, lowest 10 in the world on both measures.

 

[drew]

I think the problem is that whilst individual accidents are reported, the enormity of the total number of deaths and serious accidents seems to be largely absent from public awareness. If those numbers of lives were being lost in say industrial accidents or train accidents then the government would be under serious pressure to act.

It would be relatively simple for the government to compel the introduction of existing technology into new cars to modify bad driving behaviours e.g. mobile phone disabled if engine running, black box recording of driving performance, engine management system rendering tailgating impossible, in-car speed governor triggered by speed limit signs etc.etc. Whilst I'm convinced that eventually all these kinds of safety features will be standard, I'm equally sure that grasping that kind of nettle is currently well beyond the populist will of all our political parties.

I suspect most of those improvements will become obsolete to a driver when we get driverless cars!

 

[cunning fergus]

I think the problem is that whilst individual accidents are reported, the enormity of the total number of deaths and serious accidents seems to be largely absent from public awareness. If those numbers of lives were being lost in say industrial accidents or train accidents then the government would be under serious pressure to act.

It would be relatively simple for the government to compel the introduction of existing technology into new cars to modify bad driving behaviours e.g. mobile phone disabled if engine running, black box recording of driving performance, engine management system rendering tailgating impossible, in-car speed governor triggered by speed limit signs etc.etc. Whilst I'm convinced that eventually all these kinds of safety features will be standard, I'm equally sure that grasping that kind of nettle is currently well beyond the populist will of all our political parties.

The good news for you is some of this technology will be standard in cars from 2017.

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/#/61409/eu-emergency-call-tech-in-all-new-cars-by-2018

Thank God we all voted for the political party that advocated this policy for their citizens..............it's for our own good isn't it?

 

[Diego Napier]

The good news for you is some of this technology will be standard in cars from 2017.

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/#/61409/eu-emergency-call-tech-in-all-new-cars-by-2018

Thank God we all voted for the political party that advocated this policy for their citizens..............it's for our own good isn't it?

The link you've posted relates to relatively simplistic reactive technology, I was referring to proactive measures.

You've completely missed the point I was making in your haste to make a spurious and rather crass point of your own.

 

[cunning fergus]

The link you've posted relates to relatively simplistic reactive technology, I was referring to proactive measures.

You've completely missed the point I was making in your haste to make a spurious and rather crass point of your own.

I see, at the risk of appearing even more stupid, let me amplify my point..........

Unless I am mistaken, you suggested that "black box technology" was a key safety measure amongst other measures that would proactively restrict illegal or dangerous driving?

You were keen to see such technology introduced but considered that there was a lack of political will in UK parties that would introduce such measures.

My response linked in details of the recent EU ecall Regulation because it introduces in all cars and light vehicles the very black box technology you want.

Even better for you are the facts that this Regulation (as with all EU law) is created by the EU Commission, which because it is not democratically elected, is unfettered by the difficulties of democracy.

Also, because it is a regulation and not a directive this legislation does not need to be approved by our own elected legislature, rather it goes straight on the statute book without a by your leave from our MPs, despite concerns about privacy.

http://technologyandoutsourcingblog...arliament-votes-in-favour-of-ecall-regulation

So to conclude, I suspect you support this regulation, and it's imposition through the EU's undemocratic channels despite not being aware of it.

Further, it is never an unreasonable assumption in new law to take the view that it is the "thin end of the wedge" your other suggestions could well be much more realisable down the road.

Sorry if i came across all crass and spurious, of course my point was really about democracy. I appreciate that for many that is irrelevant when compared to public safety.

 

[Diego Napier]

I see, at the risk of appearing even more stupid, let me amplify my point..........

Unless I am mistaken, you suggested that "black box technology" was a key safety measure amongst other measures that would proactively restrict illegal or dangerous driving?

You were keen to see such technology introduced but considered that there was a lack of political will in UK parties that would introduce such measures.

My response linked in details of the recent EU ecall Regulation because it introduces in all cars and light vehicles the very black box technology you want.

Even better for you are the facts that this Regulation (as with all EU law) is created by the EU Commission, which because it is not democratically elected, is unfettered by the difficulties of democracy.

Also, because it is a regulation and not a directive this legislation does not need to be approved by our own elected legislature, rather it goes straight on the statute book without a by your leave from our MPs, despite concerns about privacy.

http://technologyandoutsourcingblog...arliament-votes-in-favour-of-ecall-regulation

So to conclude, I suspect you support this regulation, and it's imposition through the EU's undemocratic channels despite not being aware of it.

Further, it is never an unreasonable assumption in new law to take the view that it is the "thin end of the wedge" your other suggestions could well be much more realisable down the road.

Sorry if i came across all crass and spurious, of course my point was really about democracy. I appreciate that for many that is irrelevant when compared to public safety.

Thanks for your clarification, I missed the free will overtone.

The black box recorder does differ from the other two measures in that it is an implied threat to be used retrospectively and still allows driver choice. I suppose the key part of your response is the length and width of the wedge.