I feel sorry for the refs as well.
I can’t imagine the majority wanted this either when they suggested they needed help.
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[Football] Right then. After that demonstration... VAR? Yes or No?
- Thread starter SweatyMexican
- Start date
I feel sorry for the refs as well.
I can’t imagine the majority wanted this either when they suggested they needed help.
Week after week we see the 'ref in the studio' explain the referee's decision to the pundits/commentators. Almost without fail those same pundits simply dismiss the given explanation because they don't like the decision. I honestly don't think football gains anything forcing refs to come out after a game to explain their decisions. Fans, like those pundits, will have already made up their minds. Every single refereeing decision can be explained in one of two ways 'the laws say... and that's what he saw' or 'the laws say... and that's what he thought he saw, but he was mistaken'.
Also, I was watching the arsenal fan tv thing earlier, and the guy said he would forgive Leno his mistake, because these things happen, he's done a lot of good previously. Then bemoaned that there would be no punishment for the ref making a mistake in not sending off Jorginho. It's kind of indicative, we forgive our players mistakes, but not referees.
I haven't seen that, but players are punished when they make a mistake - it might affect the points their team gets, and they'll get dropped if they make too many mistakes. Referees don't get anything like the punishment, so it's understandable fans are annoyed when they make a mistake and the PL rally around them and pretend they didn't make a mistake at all (eg, pretending Mike Dean didn't get the Stephens decision wrong, so banning Stephens for the play-offs).
Mayonaise
Well-known member
I see where you are coming from for sure.
One big difference with Rugby is that the on-field ref is still the ref and has the final say. He can ask for clarification and verification but ultimately still makes the final decision.
'Clear and obvious' - yes, there is the rub, and the source of the basic error. The PGMOL (and Dermot Gallagher on SSN in enthusiastic support for the car crash that is VAR as it stands) has taken the view that if (after slo-mo replays from six different angles) VAR shows a players left testicle is a millimetre offside it is therefore 'clear and obvious' it is offside. Yes, it is, it's offside, we know - and if it wasn't given by the on-field ref it is, strictly speaking, an error. But it is just that, an error - not a 'clear and obvious' error.
If only they'd used a better definition - glaringly obvious error, maybe. One that 30,000 people see, but the ref's missed - not an offside that even the defending side haven't appealed for!
Deportivo Seagull
I should coco
Creaky
Well-known member
I don’t know about Union but in League they certainly use it to check offside decisions - they do it in a far simpler way though, no lines, simply the opinion of the video ref. In League the video ref is only called upon to look at whether a try is a valid score, (offside, obstruction, knock on etc), and only if the on-field ref requests a review. Once a review has been requested then the video ref’s decision is final. The video ref cannot rule on whether a pass is forward.
The on-field ref can ask for a video replay of possible foul play on the big screens to help him when making a decision on red/yellow cards - the decision in this case is for the on-field ref to make.
It works well despite League having a “tribal” fan base and replays of foul play and controversial “moments” does not seem to cause any crowd trouble. Showing what the refs are looking at on the big screen keeps the fans in the stadium informed and feeds just as much debate as when decisions were made without the help of video replays.
Exactly....I was referring to Union but the same applies. Quick review by the video ref, watched and discussed with the on-field ref with no stupid laser lines.......’soft’ onfield decision usually communicated in advance (I’m awarding the try unless there’s a clear reason why I shouldn’t’ etc)
Football should be the same - if the offside is obvious (not the case if a laser-line is needed to determine it) then fair enough, otherwise give the goal. Ref should also use the monitor pitchside - watch a replay, unless clearly offside (Burn or Pukki as an example yesterday wouldn’t have been) then it’s a goal. All this use of computer-generated lines is bollocks, it really is. Too much precision.
Exactly, precision for lines but is it really being used on the exact part of the body? Secondly there’s not an exact moment that can be measured as to when the ball is struck, is it the impact on the ball or as it moves from the foot/head?
But that’s my point. The refs don’t want to bite off the hand that is feeding them.
They might have the power but are frightened of the consequences of using it (alone).
The horse has bolted..........
Billy the Fish
Technocrat
VAR 'should not be too forensic' - football law-makers set to issue guidance - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50944416
IFAB basically saying that the PGMOL have implemented VAR incorrectly. It wouldn't surprise me if they're too arrogant to listen
IFAB basically saying that the PGMOL have implemented VAR incorrectly. It wouldn't surprise me if they're too arrogant to listen
Seasider78
Well-known member
- Nov 14, 2004
- 6,011
IFAB rules also state that the officials should be making decisions as they always have (pre VAR) whereas we are seeing officials keeping flags down waiting for VAR to make the decision. I would rather it is binned altogether but if it is staying then IFAB need to make is black and white what is and is not supposed to happen including clarify on how far back in play infringements can be looked at.
They also say referees should look at pitch side monitors. But the premier league thought that would delay the game.
Authorities starting to talk sense - shock, horror - hold the headlines! Let's hope his comments are heeded. Somebody a millimetre offside is offside - though I would still argue it's not 'clear and obvious' offside, whatever Dermot Gallagher insists!
However, a referee missing that someone is a millimetre offside is technically an error, yes, but it is not a 'Clear and obvious error' - which is what VAR is meant to be spotting.
Villa's disallowed goal...
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Iggle Piggle
Well-known member
- Sep 3, 2010
- 5,991
Jack Grealish goal disallowed by the finest of margins is fine by me. If I was in the VAR room I'd have found a reason to disallow his legit one as well.
The commentator on my stream was saying that the players didn't really seem to celebrate the Chelsea goal, as they were waiting for VAR to look at it. If I heard him right he said something like 'it's one thing when the fans hesitate to celebrate, but when the players are wary as well, the game dies'.
Comparing the position of the feet of the players - isn't that what someone was suggesting is the way to improve VAR? Seems they've nailed it for the fans that wanted the line to be drawn there.
Billy the Fish
Technocrat
Did anyone else notice for Burnley's disallowed goal it looked like they drew the lines in the wrong place?
Abraham's leg was sticking out but they still drew the line from his body. No discussion on MOTD I guess because it didn't affect the result, but it seems like another case of the bigger gamma being favoured and nobody talks about it if it's a small club on the wrong end of the decision.
Abraham's leg was sticking out but they still drew the line from his body. No discussion on MOTD I guess because it didn't affect the result, but it seems like another case of the bigger gamma being favoured and nobody talks about it if it's a small club on the wrong end of the decision.