[Football] Right then. After that demonstration... VAR? Yes or No?

[The Wizard]

Probably already been discussed but what the hell is the point of VAR if they are going to rule out goals as offside by a fingernail, if they aren’t going to change a referees decision with regards to penalties? Two examples over the last game week with Lamela wrestling Laporte to the floor, no penalty and then Pogba yesterday, penalty given, blatant on the replay that the defender made no actual tackle and Pogba dragged his leg into the wolves defender then fell over, but no change of decision?

How can they be so nit picky over an offside but not by other issues? I understand they take the referees decision into account and decide whether he’s made a clear mistake, to me both of those were clear mistakes so why weren’t decisions changed? They have to get the balance right if it’s going to be used.

Won’t quote the whole post but agree 100% with Mejona a few posts up and it echoes what I said on the first page, if you can’t celebrate a goal then really what is the point? It really ruins a matchday experience for fans at the game, dramatic on tv but will kill atmospheres in the ground.

 

[Nobby]

VAR is great.

Why don’t they keep the results secret, then announce them after Match of the Day?

That way, everyone can experience the joy of the goals, the thrill of the win. Or vice versa, of course. Saturday night pints would taste brilliant, or like turgid dust on the tongue.

You could have had 5 hours of reliving that scintillating win, or trying to forget a dismal result.

Then Gary can announce the true results. Across England and outliers of Wales joy becomes gloom, gloom joy.

But by then everyone’s sloshed [emoji3061].

And so to bed.

What I want to know is have we had the Watford result yet?

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Do we think then, if VAR continues (and it clearly will), that we will actually start to enjoy goals less? .

I already had by the time Trossard scored his legit goal on Saturday. All I did was kept my eye on the ref whilst half cheering.

 

[southstandandy]

Do we think then, if VAR continues (and it clearly will), that we will actually start to enjoy goals less? That we will evolve to not be quite as joyous- our natural reactions muted, just in case?
That'd be so sad.
Imagine seeing that Neves goal and being like "nice shot but let's wait until VAR".

Sadly Yes. After Trossard's first goal on Saturday was chalked off (and I accept rightly so), when he scored the second I initially jumped up and then sat down to wait for the ref to confirm the goal. Mercifully this only took 30 seconds this time. I then started to celebrate just as the players were about to kick off again.

I hate it but I accept I will just have to get used it. Sadly times change, not always for the better.

 

[the right footed denilson]

I already had by the time Trossard scored his legit goal on Saturday. All I did was kept my eye on the ref whilst half cheering.

C'mon...
You genuinely didn't squeal and jump about initially? Even for a moment?

 

[the right footed denilson]

Sadly Yes. After Trossard's first goal on Saturday was chalked off (and I accept rightly so), when he scored the second I initially jumped up and then sat down to wait for the ref to confirm the goal. Mercifully this only took 30 seconds this time. I then started to celebrate just as the players were about to kick off again.

I hate it but I accept I will just have to get used it. Sadly times change, not always for the better.

Then this is really sad. VAR isn't good for the game if we lose that. What's the point otherwise?

 

[Acker79]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...id-squires-on-handball-and-the-premier-league

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

C'mon...
You genuinely didn't squeal and jump about initially? Even for a moment?

Yes.....and then I remembered VAR and immediately calmed down and waited for the confirmation.....

The fact that was interrupted at all is rubbish.

 

[Exile]

The worst part of the game (VAR-wise) for me, was the horrible, HORRIBLE, 30 seconds between Antonio tangling with Duffy in our box and going down, and the point at which the ball had next gone out of play, and then play restarted without Mr Taylor putting his finger to his ear.

Excruciating.

 

[southstandandy]

Then this is really sad. VAR isn't good for the game if we lose that. What's the point otherwise?

Less of an issue if your an armchair fan I suspect. It all adds to the drama for the broadcasters. It's those fans actually at the game live who I feel sorry for. The spontaneity definitely dropped on Saturday for Trossards second goal. I wasn't the only one fixated on the ref for 30 seconds after it hit the net. I saw him with his hand to his ear and thought 'not again'. Apparently it was checked for a possible foul by Murray, so was obviously pleased this one stood and I only had to wait 30 seconds to start celebrating.

 

[the right footed denilson]

Less of an issue if your an armchair fan I suspect. It all adds to the drama for the broadcasters. (and gives pundits even more guff to spout) It's those fans actually at the game live who I feel sorry for. The spontaneity definitely dropped on Saturday for Trossards second goal. I wasn't the only one fixated on the ref for 30 seconds after it hit the net. I saw him with his hand to his ear and thought 'not again'. Apparently it was checked for a possible foul by Murray, so was obviously pleased this one stood and I only had to wait 30 seconds to start celebrating.

This is actually a very interesting take on it.
I read a post on here a few days back about the '66 World Cup final. About footballs profile back then, that football supporters were people who lived within walking distance from the ground. Football existed in this localised, tribal space where the clubs relied totally on these supporters.
VAR, it could be argued, is the finally nail in the coffin of the match-day football supporter.
The goal is the ultimate moment in football- that moment, often before it's even hit the net, is elation like nothing else. The authorities are willing to take that moment away from the truest supporters. And by doing so they're saying 'you don't matter anymore'.

Oligarchs and oil crooks
Fifa/UEFA/FA board members
TV companies
Sponsors
Players
TV subscribers
Replica shirt buyers
TV viewers
People who regurgitate what they read in the Sun at work or down the pub
Match day supporters....

...isn't an overly pessimistic view of how the governing bodies see the hierarchy in football.

 

[crodonilson]

Man U fan at work today absolutely fuming that the Wolverhampton goal last night was given, clearly Moutinho's furthest part of the shoulder was millimetres in front of the United defender, thought VAR was supposed to get these big decisions right??

Also surprised me to be honest, the expectation was that it would be biased towards the big clubs, particualry as the PL needs a successful Man U so was shocked it wasn't chalked off. Solksjaer not happy after the game either.

 

[Nixonator]

If football ever gets to the point where albion fans don't properly celebrate until a VAR call, think I will probably call it day.

Many have brought it up already but it's still understated just how important THAT moment is within this game, it's why I would happily spend 100 quid going up to Barnsley for the day seeking it.

I have a feeling that many of the posters who are pro-VAR are generally not the ones going to 30+ games a season to watch us play.

 

[Exile]

Man U fan at work today absolutely fuming that the Wolverhampton goal last night was given, clearly Moutinho's furthest part of the shoulder was millimetres in front of the United defender, thought VAR was supposed to get these big decisions right??

Also surprised me to be honest, the expectation was that it would be biased towards the big clubs, particualry as the PL needs a successful Man U so was shocked it wasn't chalked off. Solksjaer not happy after the game either.

Notwithstanding that your post is a wind-up...

...there has been some incredibly ignorant analysis of that particular moment, simply as so many people (both public and pundits) don't understand the offside rule. Moutinho's position relative to the last defender was not relevant. He was behind the BALL, and therefore onside, regardless.

 

[the right footed denilson]

If football ever gets to the point where albion fans don't properly celebrate until a VAR call, think I will probably call it day.

Many have brought it up already but it's still understated just how important THAT moment is within this game, it's why I would happily spend 100 quid going up to Barnsley for the day seeking it.

I have a feeling that many of the posters who are pro-VAR are generally not the ones going to 30+ games a season to watch us play.

Despite all our wildest levels of success over the years there’s some goals I distinctly remember, not hugely for their importance but because I jumped 4 rows in unison with every one else- one was a Hammond goal at Cheltenham, another a Robinson goal at Burnley I think. A Brooker screamer at Bournemouth. Those are the moments I never want to lose. Hugging strangers. Diving on players. That’s why we watch football, not for some pedantic need to get every little referee decision correct or to actively seek the tiniest misdemeanour in a last minute goal.

 

[warmleyseagull]

Why do we have to accept it is not going away?

Been two seasons in Bundesliga and Serie A and has been accepted despite teething problems just as we are seeing (see https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...g-weekend-good-advert-video-assistant-referee and https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...esliga-referee-hands-mainz-half-time-penalty/ for example). There was bound to be resistance and controversy when first introduced. It is far from being finished article.

 

[METALMICKY]

Despite all our wildest levels of success over the years there’s some goals I distinctly remember, not hugely for their importance but because I jumped 4 rows in unison with every one else- one was a Hammond goal at Cheltenham, another a Robinson goal at Burnley I think. A Brooker screamer at Bournemouth. Those are the moments I never want to lose. Hugging strangers. Diving on players. That’s why we watch football, not for some pedantic need to get every little referee decision correct or to actively seek the tiniest misdemeanour in a last minute goal.

This with bells on!

 

[Acker79]

How often do we actually leave a game we've lost thankful that we had that moment of cheering a goal? How often do we leave a game that we've won focusing on the celebration of a goal rather than the win itself? How often have we gone nuts for a goal, only to see it disallowed by a linesman's flag - and how often has that stopped us celebrating the next goal? Wining generally trumps goal celebrations.

The fact people might cite specific examples (I'm sure I could if I thought about it) surely shows how rare it is? These examples are so infrequent that you can remember specific events.

There seems to be a suggestion that celebrations of goals always last several minutes at least (long after the game has restarted), and that the threat of VAR meant there was no joy in Trossard's goal - we had barely enough time to get up out of our seats before we were back in them terrified it was going to be stolen from us. That wasn't my experience, and it didn't appear to be that of those around me (even the guy who completely lost it after the first was disallowed and vowed never to celebrate a goal again was on his feet for the usual time). Most around me were settling down in their seats for kick off before there was any sense of 'hang on, is this going to be disallowed, too?!'

I guess my point is are we getting carried away with how much celebrating goals will be affected? We all get caught up in the moment, and will continue to do so. There will be exceptions - negative/nervy/insecure people who always expect the worst, or games where we feel everything is going against us - ref decisions, maybe more than one VAR disallowed goal, where it's more about the overall sense of injustice than the VAR goal review process itself, but generally, aren't we all going to continue to celebrate goals, despite all this sulky 'well I don't see the point any more, I'm done!' type flounces?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Been two seasons in Bundesliga and Serie A and has been accepted despite teething problems just as we are seeing (see https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...g-weekend-good-advert-video-assistant-referee and https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...esliga-referee-hands-mainz-half-time-penalty/ for example). There was bound to be resistance and controversy when first introduced. It is far from being finished article.

So not only will it NOT currently give the correct outcome in all cases but by the own admission of one of its supporters it is FAR from the finished article and could be making things worse

Would you try and flog a car that only had three wheels or fly in a plan that looked ok but was missing some vital stabilising flaps that, not only had not been fitted but had not yet been invented? Release buggy smartphone OS? Use internet banking that was far from having the testing finished?

And yet people are paying £50 quid for a match ticket when the most crucial decisions in that match not only won't be replayed to them but will simply delay the decision (without the correct time being added on) and all while the system is far from finished?

Literally unbelievable.

 

[warmleyseagull]

So not only will it NOT currently give the correct outcome in all cases but by the own admission of one of its supporters it is FAR from the finished article and could be making things worse

Would you try and flog a car that only had three wheels or fly in a plan that looked ok but was missing some vital stabilising flaps that, not only had not been fitted but had not yet been invented? Release buggy smartphone OS? Use internet banking that was far from having the testing finished?

And yet people are paying £50 quid for a match ticket when the most crucial decisions in that match not only won't be replayed to them but will simply delay the decision (without the correct time being added on) and all while the system is far from finished?

Literally unbelievable.

The argument looked good until you mention internet banking. Do you think that is finished article? Hope not. Do people use it despite not being finished article? They do. I am not sure there is anything that is right first time, is there? To be clear, I think VAR is fit for purpose but it evidently needs modification and improvement. It needs testing in live environment; it is getting that; and it will improve to the point of general acceptance as it has done in Bundesliga and Serie A, not to mention international cricket and rugby. Meantime, stupidity and dysfunctionality occur, as per the links I posted previously in Germany and Italy when VAR first adopted there. That tends to be the way these things work.

And nowhere have I said I am supporter of VAR, TBH, I would have been content to carry on as was; what I am against is writing it off because Albion have been perceived as hard done by in one game, which is basically what this thread is about (can anyone look themselves in the mirror and say: "I would have posted just as strongly against VAR had Trossard's goal stood and Hernandez's goal been ruled offside due to VAR"?) I also believe in its inevitability because PL will not wish to be seen to be recidivist when other Leagues are adopting so we had better get used to it, like it or not.

I shall save this thread and dig it out in two years' time when we shall all wonder where the dinosaurs have gone.