[Football] Right then. After that demonstration... VAR? Yes or No?

[Nobby]

To be fair it must be pretty hard to have one eye on the free kick and the other eye on the line. No one else noticed it at the time, not even from the stands.

My only question would be is; if Burn passed to another player, who then played it to Trossard to score. How far back do they go?

We haven’t won the Watford game yet apparently. They’re still checking the Maupay offside

 

[Sussex Nomad]

this gave me a brain wave to apply to offside. make it detected with something in the players boots. its not quite perfect, but there body cant be more than a foot or so "offside", and that discrepancy is made up for the certainty and instant decision a la goal line.

Two tiered football surely? One law for the top division, one for the rest. And anyway, if you are seen to be an inch offside are you happy with that?

 

[Nobby]

It was nothing like a fraction of a second. Our players had celebrated and then all the players were ready to start again from the centre spot. Some here have said around 2 minutes, I have no idea of the exact time but it must have approached that easily. That is unacceptable.

1 minute and 42 seconds. I’ll say that again. It took 1 minute and 42 seconds for Taylor to be told it was offside. If it takes that long how can it be a clear and obvious error?

 

[Deadly Danson]

I'm sure all my issues are covered, but best to detail my rant in a series of bullet points.

- I hate it. HATE HATE HATE IT.
- The sheer unbridled JOY of a goal has had an element taken away from it. Even on Trossard's legit goal, I only HALF celebrated for fear of them finding SOMETHING wrong with it. The removal of that utter joy is an absolute crime against the sport. Awful.
- It is NOT the same as reviewing a try or a wicket or a point in tennis. Yes, these are important, but they are in NO WAY as VITAL is a goal is in football. Plenty of games are won 1-0 with last minute winners, the fact that the fans can't go MENTAL for fear of it being over-ruled is mad. Yes, it was funny, but see Man City's last minute winner ruled out for an example of how rubbish this is. Yes, it's 'drama' but it's taking away from every goal.
- The delay in finding out a goal is even being 'properly' reviewed is awful and it purely communicated. I have no issue with the goal being ruled out. Burn was offside. The delay is shocking. Why can't this be a review system where, within 5 seconds of a goal being scored, the manager/captain can ask for a review if they have a doubt? Then we know very early that there could possibly be a disallowed goal. The fact they are 'reviewing' every goal means constant worry that it won't stand.
- The Linespeople have become redundant. They have now been instructed to NOT flag for offside's until the phase of play is complete or whatever it is. It's ridiculous. The amount of standard offsides I've seen where play continues and continues and eventually the flag goes up. If I was a lino I wouldn't DARE put my flag up now for fear of being THE lino who stopped play when someone was actually onside.
- Who EXACTLY is it who are demanding the 'perfect' game where no mistakes are made. This game has grown and grown and is a religion in this country before this nonsense came in.
- Do NOT use goal line tech in the same conversation as VAR. Goal line tech is an instant decision and is a FACT. It is brilliant.


Done.

Completely agree with every word. I simply don't understand how anyone with a pulse who goes to football won't miss celebrating a goal with the same gusto and insanity that we always have. Maybe once they do away with the ridiculous new handball rule and somehow find the technology to instantly rule an offside accurately then it might work but until then bin it.

 

[Easy 10]

this gave me a brain wave to apply to offside. make it detected with something in the players boots. its not quite perfect, but there body cant be more than a foot or so "offside", and that discrepancy is made up for the certainty and instant decision a la goal line.

You may have something there.

How about this. Whenever there is only the goalkeeper between a player and the goal-line, his boots change colour. They light up. LED lights. So immediately he passes beyond the last defender (whether its with the ball or not), you can see he is then beyond the last defender because his boots are lit.

It doesn't necessarily mean that he IS offside of course, he may have timed his run perfectly. It would just be an immediate, indisputable visual indicator that he is, at that moment, beyond the last defender. If his boots are already lit up when the instant the ball is played - he's offside. No ambiguity. No dispute. And it would look pretty COOL wouldn't it ? I'd also have it that BOTH boots need to be beyond the last defender before they light up and make him 'offside', not just one, but that of course would need a rule change.

Bonkers ?

 

[Hastings gull]

The image on MOTD was taken after the ball had been kicked, if that was the image used to rule out the goal then it proved the technology isn't good enough yet.

Yes, I thought that too. I don't know what VAR equipment is used, but hope and presume that they don't just lift the TV companies coverage, but see an incident from all angles?

 

[Nobby]

I'm sure all my issues are covered, but best to detail my rant in a series of bullet points.

- I hate it. HATE HATE HATE IT.
- The sheer unbridled JOY of a goal has had an element taken away from it. Even on Trossard's legit goal, I only HALF celebrated for fear of them finding SOMETHING wrong with it. The removal of that utter joy is an absolute crime against the sport. Awful.
- It is NOT the same as reviewing a try or a wicket or a point in tennis. Yes, these are important, but they are in NO WAY as VITAL is a goal is in football. Plenty of games are won 1-0 with last minute winners, the fact that the fans can't go MENTAL for fear of it being over-ruled is mad. Yes, it was funny, but see Man City's last minute winner ruled out for an example of how rubbish this is. Yes, it's 'drama' but it's taking away from every goal.
- The delay in finding out a goal is even being 'properly' reviewed is awful and it purely communicated. I have no issue with the goal being ruled out. Burn was offside. The delay is shocking. Why can't this be a review system where, within 5 seconds of a goal being scored, the manager/captain can ask for a review if they have a doubt? Then we know very early that there could possibly be a disallowed goal. The fact they are 'reviewing' every goal means constant worry that it won't stand.
- The Linespeople have become redundant. They have now been instructed to NOT flag for offside's until the phase of play is complete or whatever it is. It's ridiculous. The amount of standard offsides I've seen where play continues and continues and eventually the flag goes up. If I was a lino I wouldn't DARE put my flag up now for fear of being THE lino who stopped play when someone was actually onside.
- Who EXACTLY is it who are demanding the 'perfect' game where no mistakes are made. This game has grown and grown and is a religion in this country before this nonsense came in.
- Do NOT use goal line tech in the same conversation as VAR. Goal line tech is an instant decision and is a FACT. It is brilliant.


Done.

All of THIS

And I bloody well knew this was all coming, it’s so frustrating - shambolic use of a worthwhile technology.

 

[Nobby]

Exactly, couldn't agree more. But unfortunately this will become only more commonplace, because linesmen are now told if they're not sure, to keep their flag down and let VAR sort it out. Its abysmal.

I feel I got "suckered" into celebrating a goal. It was totally unacceptable to reveal 2 minutes after it had been scored that it was THEN being reviewed. Then it gives an almighty psychological boost to the opposition when its chalked off so long after the event, almost like when a side misses a penalty. Its a huge reprieve.

Anyone who is actually OK with how that played out on Saturday needs to take a step back and analyse why it is they go to football. Part of Burns LEG was offside ffs, yet so much still had to happen before Trossard buried that volley. The margins for offside have become absolutely ludicrous.

Clear and obvious my left bollock. I fvcking KNEW VAR would ruin football.

THIS too

 

[beorhthelm]

Two tiered football surely? One law for the top division, one for the rest. And anyway, if you are seen to be an inch offside are you happy with that?

absolutely not happy with two tier football, but since VAR and tech is applied at top level and see an inch offside now, thats where we are. at least make it instant.

 

[Hastings gull]

For at least this season.

Sad to see virtually every goal reviewed. I was hoping it would be more a case of review if in doubt rather than look to see if there is any way to disallow a goal.

Yes, my thoughts as well, though, to be fair, if we all want something that is correct, then perhaps this is what we will have to put up with, but the resulting disappointment after Trossard's first "goal" is not something that I would want repeated. Puts me on the fence, I suppose, but surely it could be used only when something is clearly wrong, and given that no one on the pitch quibbled with the "goal" then that should have been the end of it. Perhaps if the ref is unsure, then it could spring in, but the thought that we might have to be on tenderhooks after very goal/penalty will at vital moments ruin the spontaneity aspect for sure.

 

[Arthritic Toe]

this gave me a brain wave to apply to offside. make it detected with something in the players boots. its not quite perfect, but their body cant be more than a foot or so "offside", and that discrepancy is made up for the certainty and instant decision a la goal line.

You may have something there.

How about this. Whenever there is only the goalkeeper between a player and the goal-line, his boots change colour. They light up. LED lights. So immediately he passes beyond the last defender (whether its with the ball or not), you can see he is then beyond the last defender because his boots are lit.

It doesn't necessarily mean that he IS offside of course, he may have timed his run perfectly. It would just be an immediate, indisputable visual indicator that he is, at that moment, beyond the last defender. If his boots are already lit up when the instant the ball is played - he's offside. No ambiguity. No dispute. And it would look pretty COOL wouldn't it ? I'd also have it that BOTH boots need to be beyond the last defender before they light up and make him 'offside', not just one, but that of course would need a rule change.

Bonkers ?

Brilliant ideas. I want this adopted immediately.

 

[perseus]

Disputable camera evidence

How the camera distorts unless corrected: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1rUuvH3fs8

THE MOTD camera distorts, do not know about VAR

My eyes from the East Lower said not offside. The camera distorted the Stephens shot as well. It was well over the bar and the keeper did not get a touch as it looked like on MOTD.

 

[Nobby]

You may have something there.

How about this. Whenever there is only the goalkeeper between a player and the goal-line, his boots change colour. They light up. LED lights. So immediately he passes beyond the last defender (whether its with the ball or not), you can see he is then beyond the last defender because his boots are lit.

It doesn't necessarily mean that he IS offside of course, he may have timed his run perfectly. It would just be an immediate, indisputable visual indicator that he is, at that moment, beyond the last defender. If his boots are already lit up when the instant the ball is played - he's offside. No ambiguity. No dispute. And it would look pretty COOL wouldn't it ? I'd also have it that BOTH boots need to be beyond the last defender before they light up and make him 'offside', not just one, but that of course would need a rule change.

Bonkers ?

No it’s a bloody good idea

I don’t think this would work for fans at the game though. If you made them flashing boots, maybe.

My eyesight is already shot, so how about an old air raid siren when a player strays VAR offside, it would give Glenn a big help too. Everyone’s a winner

 

[Sussex Nomad]

I haven't read every post, the thread is way too long for that, but I've dipped in and out at various points and the argument on here would seem to boil down to spontaneity versus correctness.
Sussex Nomad appears to be one of the main cheerleaders for spontaneity over correctness, but his arguments are failing to persuade me, and I'm very much in the correctness camp.

I originally had enormous apathy towards VAR, but that changed big time after the away game at Cardiff last year.
I felt bitter for weeks and weeks after that game about the total injustice we suffered, and no amount of spontaneity before or after would have compensated for those feelings.

Correctness HAS to be the winner.

It's sheer nonsense to suggest that any true football fan would happily accept their team losing points through incorrect decisions ...... just so long as they get the chance to jump up and down every now and then and wave their arms around like a Honey Monster in a bee farm.

As a matter of fact I felt able to leap out of my seat and wave my arms around for BOTH of Trossard's goals on Saturday, as did all of the people within my immediate eyeline in the Upper East, and I wasn't aware of anybody sitting on their hands awaiting the VAR decision.

I just do not get this.

 

[Nobby]

I just do not get this.

No me neither. Spontaneity is what makes LIVE football. Isn’t it why we all go?
Otherwise I’ll just watch at home and save thousands of quid per year

 

[Acker79]

You may have something there.

How about this. Whenever there is only the goalkeeper between a player and the goal-line, his boots change colour. They light up. LED lights. So immediately he passes beyond the last defender (whether its with the ball or not), you can see he is then beyond the last defender because his boots are lit.

It doesn't necessarily mean that he IS offside of course, he may have timed his run perfectly. It would just be an immediate, indisputable visual indicator that he is, at that moment, beyond the last defender. If his boots are already lit up when the instant the ball is played - he's offside. No ambiguity. No dispute. And it would look pretty COOL wouldn't it ? I'd also have it that BOTH boots need to be beyond the last defender before they light up and make him 'offside', not just one, but that of course would need a rule change.

Bonkers ?

Point of order!

Would need to be when there is fewer than two opposing players closer to the goal. Player is still offside if there's only one defender (and no goalkeeper) between the attacking player and the goal line.


On a more practical level, I'm not sure it really solves anything.

Are we foregoing video assistant refs for offsides? We're relying on the lino to judge when the ball is kicked, and where the player is at that moment. It's not really that different to trying to spot if the luminous yellow shirt is ahead of the blue one that we had before VAR. Then factor in the back and forth between forwards and defenders as they jockey, try to bend their runs, etc. the light changing frequently over the course of seconds.

Are we using video to judge close calls? We need to freeze frame the moment the ball is kicked, people are questioning the UHD, 50-60fps footage currently used, how is that addressed? You're still picking which frame is the one in which the player starts to play the ball. Why is that an issue now, bit not for your idea?

How do we have light up boots (which will require lights, and power) that can take a beating without damaging the lights, power or circuits, as they are constantly kicking the ball, and occasionally making contact with other boots, goal posts, that are light enough to wear and play football in, and continue to allow players to play the ball the way current boots do?

With such technology, people will be ruled offside for being a millimetre offside. Isn't such nitpickiness part of what people are turning on at the moment?

 

[symyjym]

I have always thought that the game could use a system for offside where all boots and balls are chipped and making the feet as the offside measurement. This would mean that the offside can be caught in real time and stopping play before a goal is scored.

As it is at the moment it will stop players celebrating in the moment, and fans too.

 

[symyjym]

The reason that is acceptable is because of the momentum swing in the game. Yes, Burn was offside but that passage of play results in the West Ham fans being given a lift whereas Brighton are deflated. On a different day that could lead to West Ham taking the lead.

In fact it did.

 

[Easy 10]

I just do not get this.

Neither do I.

Are we really prepared to sacrifice the spontaneity of celebrating a goal, in favour of measuring every decision, every incident down to the last millimetre ? Of diminishing that "rush" you feel when the net bulges, because you know that its still got to be reviewed first, and someone in a studio miles away will be drawing lines across their screen to see if they can find a way of ruling it out ?

I can't believe people are actually happy to go along with this. Surely to god its only supposed to be used when there has been a clear and obvious mistake, something the officials missed, and where a team benefited as a direct result. Thats what its supposed to be for. Thats what we weer told. Not this.

The games gone.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

What about, here is an idea, what about we just drop the offside law. Ok the game would be played deeper but it takes controversy out of the game, who invented that shit law anyway?