[Albion] Richard Keogh

[lost in london]

Seems pretty clear to me - he's got 8 months left on his contract, they almost certainly have grounds to bin him off for misconduct now (surely doing something as daft as getting into car with a drunk driver and getting injured for the rest of your contract is grounds for terminating a contract), they didn't have to offer him anything but offered him a token amount to see through the rest of his contract (presumably also with that providing staff and facilities to help with his rehab), when he said no, they played the misconduct card and terminated his contract.

I think Derby had all the cards, threw him the scraps of a 10% of salary and rehab offer, he said no so they called his bluff and terminated his contract.

Imagine you are an employer paying a specialist contractor £1.25m a year on a fixed term contract ending in June 2020. That contractor gets pissed and gets into a car with another pissed person, gets into a crash and can't work for the rest of the duration of his contract. What would you do? You've got to pay someone else to do that job now, are you going to also pay the guy who messed up?

The only thing that clouds this in my mind is whether they should have shown him more loyalty given his past service to the club. Ultimately however it's a brutal business, he was being paid an enormous amount of money and responsibilities come with that.

 

[The Wizard]

Seems pretty clear to me - he's got 8 months left on his contract, they almost certainly have grounds to bin him off for misconduct now (surely doing something as daft as getting into car with a drunk driver and getting injured for the rest of your contract is grounds for terminating a contract), they didn't have to offer him anything but offered him a token amount to see through the rest of his contract (presumably also with that providing staff and facilities to help with his rehab), when he said no, they played the misconduct card and terminated his contract.

I think Derby had all the cards, threw him the scraps of a 10% of salary and rehab offer, he said no so they called his bluff and terminated his contract.

Imagine you are an employer paying a specialist contractor £1.25m a year on a fixed term contract ending in June 2020. That contractor gets pissed and gets into a car with another pissed person, gets into a crash and can't work for the rest of the duration of his contract. What would you do? You've got to pay someone else to do that job now, are you going to also pay the guy who messed up?

The only thing that clouds this in my mind is whether they should have shown him more loyalty given his past service to the club. Ultimately however it's a brutal business, he was being paid an enormous amount of money and responsibilities come with that.

All irrelevant when you consider they have sacked him for gross misconduct, yet they haven’t dismissed the 2 players who are equally as bad or did even worse simply because they are younger and more valuable to the club? This is an employment Lawyers dream case, Derby will be forced to pay up the contract, I would bet heavy on it.

I absolutely detest drunk drivers as well, a truly appalling crime IMO deserves much bigger punishments, I’ve always believed you should not be allowed to drive after any alcohol, eradicates all the idiots that claim ignorance.

 

[Ernest]

10% of his salary is/was £2500 a week , he wasn't being left potless it was a fair offer seeing as due to his own stupidity he can't play and might not ever play again

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

I think Derby have taken legal advice and then taken a pragmatic (but completely immoral) decision solely based on finances .....

They can't sack the two young players . That's obvious they are worth millions

They know Keogh has a strong legal case against them for the rest of his contract to be paid to him. However they also know that due to the publicity (and possibly that he'll want to try to find another club after his injury has ended) there's a good chance Keogh will settle out of court for may half of the value of the contract. This will also save Derby the costs of 18 months of rehabbing the guy

Keogh is 33 and likely will never play again (the injury is that bad). While he is far from being in the poor house - his treatment by Derby at this stage of his career is a disgrace. Keogh was club captain so he was held in high regard by the staff and players. Yet Derby top brass come out with - 'the Club will not tolerate any of its players or staff behaving in a manner which puts themselves, their colleagues, and members of the general public at risk of injury or worse, or which brings the club into disrepute.’ - so Keogh carries the can. Its not like the other players were kids - Lawrence is 25 and Bennett is 23 - and they both got into separate cars and ended up crashing into one another - and what is worse, both of them got out of their cars and done a runner, leaving Keogh badly injured in the back of a range rover (and another injured passenger as well). It was lucky for both that a team of paramedics witnessed the accident by chance. It also came out in the court case that Lawrence is 'quite dependent' on alcohol. After the accident Keogh expressed that he felt responsible as club captain for not looking after the others, and the club has screwed him as a result.

At the end of the day Keogh has been treated disgracefully - he has been sacked - and the two others, who got behind the wheel of a car (Keogh doesn't even drive), crashed two cars into one another, left the scene of an accident abandoning two two injured passengers, were convicted of drink-driving, should have gone to jail for doing a runner but pleaded the case down - were fined 6 weeks wages because that is what their contracts allowed. I am sure that Keogh had the same clause in his contract - and I am sure he would have accepted the 6 weeks fine - but instead Derby dump him because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and got injured because of the fault of someone else. Once again the employer screws the worker.

 

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

Maybe Mel Morris said to Keogh you will have to have a pay cut cos of the injury.
Keogh went all goggle eyed, lost it and nutted Mel Morris.
Result........Gross misconduct.

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

Not if that's the full story.

Of course, there may be other reasons (although they weren't mentioned in the report) but if a club says we're not pay a player full wages because he's injured that will have massive implications for football.

And employers do illegal things all the time, if they didn't, there'd be no need for employment tribunals

I think there is a clear difference between not paying a player who was injured in training or a game or by accident. Keogh was pissed and got into one of the young players cars, both of whom were also pissed. They then seemed to engage in a race. As a senior player, Keogh should have been trying to stop events from happening, not being complicit in them.

For all we know, Keogh was encouraging Lawrence to overtake Bennett at speed which caused the contact that caused the accident to occur.

 

[lost in london]

All irrelevant when you consider they have sacked him for gross misconduct, yet they haven’t dismissed the 2 players who are equally as bad or did even worse simply because they are younger and more valuable to the club? This is an employment Lawyers dream case, Derby will be forced to pay up the contract, I would bet heavy on it.

That's whataboutism.

I was looking at Keogh's case in isolation.

Fact is Keogh was old and in the twilight of his career. All the more reason to (a) expect more from him and (b) for him to not be so daft.

The two young kids are worth more, have longer contracts (i'm guessing, I don't know) and didn't get injured. I guess that's why they weren't sacked.

 

[lost in london]

Once again the employer screws the worker.

I don't think so - here the employee screwed the employer. They're paying him £1.25m a year, he took himself out of action. I feel for the guy, we all make mistakes, but I've got sympathy for the employer as well.

 

[The Wizard]

That's whataboutism.

I was looking at Keogh's case in isolation.

Fact is Keogh was old and in the twilight of his career. All the more reason to (a) expect more from him and (b) for him to not be so daft.

The two young kids are worth more, have longer contracts (i'm guessing, I don't know) and didn't get injured. I guess that's why they weren't sacked.

So basically because Keogh is old and has less value he’s being treated far more harshly than a younger player who probably did worse, purely because they have more value? Don’t you see how wrong that is, if you are sacking Keogh for gross misconduct how the hell can you allow the other two idiots to go straight back into the team? Like I said this will be an employment lawyers dream case, it’s shocking from Derby.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

I don't think so - here the employee screwed the employer. They're paying him £1.25m a year, he took himself out of action. I feel for the guy, we all make mistakes, but I've got sympathy for the employer as well.

No he didn't - Lawrence took him out of the action. Lawrence was driving the car and convicted in court as being responsible for the crash. Keogh ended up unconscious with a serious injury in the back seat, while Lawrence ran away from the scene of the accident and left him there. Lawrence got fined 6 weeks wages - Keogh got sacked. The reason Keogh got sacked was because he is not worth anything in resale and they are paying him big wages - he is being treated like a piece of meat.

P.S. Keith Treacy (former Burnley player) is currently on Irish radio talking about this - and he made the point that Lawrence and Bennett played for Derby the following weekend - Treacy claimed that Derby made up their mind to shaft Keogh immediately after the accident (he was interviewed two days after the accident and predicted that Derby would sack Keogh) and that this is all about money and nothing else.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Keogh is 33 and likely will never play again (the injury is that bad). While he is far from being in the poor house - his treatment by Derby at this stage of his career is a disgrace. Keogh was club captain so he was held in high regard by the staff and players. Yet Derby top brass come out with - 'the Club will not tolerate any of its players or staff behaving in a manner which puts themselves, their colleagues, and members of the general public at risk of injury or worse, or which brings the club into disrepute.’ - so Keogh carries the can. Its not like the other players were kids - Lawrence is 25 and Bennett is 23 - and they both got into separate cars and ended up crashing into one another - and what is worse, both of them got out of their cars and done a runner, leaving Keogh badly injured in the back of a range rover (and another injured passenger as well). It was lucky for both that a team of paramedics witnessed the accident by chance. It also came out in the court case that Lawrence is 'quite dependent' on alcohol. After the accident Keogh expressed that he felt responsible as club captain for not looking after the others, and the club has screwed him as a result.

At the end of the day Keogh has been treated disgracefully - he has been sacked - and the two others, who got behind the wheel of a car (Keogh doesn't even drive), crashed two cars into one another, left the scene of an accident abandoning two two injured passengers, were convicted of drink-driving, should have gone to jail for doing a runner but pleaded the case down - were fined 6 weeks wages because that is what their contracts allowed. I am sure that Keogh had the same clause in his contract - and I am sure he would have accepted the 6 weeks fine - but instead Derby dump him because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and got injured because of the fault of someone else. Once again the employer screws the worker.

I agree with all the stuff highlighted but none of the rest.

 

[lost in london]

So basically because Keogh is old and has less value he’s being treated far more harshly than a younger player who probably did worse, purely because they have more value?

I don't think he is being treated how he is because he is old, I think he is being treated how is is because his contract is up in June 2020 and he can't play for the rest of his contract. He is largely the author of his own misfortune, as horrible as that is for him.

Maybe the club's hands were tied with the other two and they can't sack them? An obvious difference is that the two drivers can still play for the rest of their contract, Keogh can't.

 

[darkwolf666]

No he didn't - Lawrence took him out of the action. Lawrence was driving the car and convicted in court as being responsible for the crash. Keogh ended up unconscious with a serious injury in the back seat, while Lawrence ran away from the scene of the accident and left him there. Lawrence got fined 6 weeks wages - Keogh got sacked. The reason Keogh got sacked was because he is not worth anything in resale and they are paying him big wages - he is being treated like a piece of meat.

P.S. Keith Treacy (former Burnley player) is currently on Irish radio talking about this - and he made the point that Lawrence and Bennett played for Derby the following weekend - Treacy claimed that Derby made up their mind to shaft Keogh immediately after the accident (he was interviewed two days after the accident and predicted that Derby would sack Keogh) and that this is all about money and nothing else.

Spot on...

Unless there is something going on that the public aren't party to I can see Keogh suing either Derby or the two responsible drivers for loss of earnings!

 

[lost in london]

No he didn't - Lawrence took him out of the action. Lawrence was driving the car and convicted in court as being responsible for the crash. Keogh ended up unconscious with a serious injury in the back seat, while Lawrence ran away from the scene of the accident and left him there. Lawrence got fined 6 weeks wages - Keogh got sacked. The reason Keogh got sacked was because he is not worth anything in resale and they are paying him big wages - he is being treated like a piece of meat.

P.S. Keith Treacy (former Burnley player) is currently on Irish radio talking about this - and he made the point that Lawrence and Bennett played for Derby the following weekend - Treacy claimed that Derby made up their mind to shaft Keogh immediately after the accident (he was interviewed two days after the accident and predicted that Derby would sack Keogh) and that this is all about money and nothing else.

Obviously Lawrence took him out by being the driver, but Keogh put himself in that position. A poor decision that has cost him a lot.

Just because Lawrence got a six week fine doesn't mean that is what Keogh should get. It simply doesn't work like that.

I do agree however that money probably motivated Derby's approach, but as I said, what else are they to do? Keogh can't play for the rest of his contract.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Spot on...

Unless there is something going on that the public aren't party to I can see Keogh suing either Derby or the two responsible drivers for loss of earnings!

Hope he does. Derby are clearly trying to save themselves (more than) a few bob on wages on an ageing injured player, albeit he bears a large responsibility for his non-footballing injury. He needs to get himself a very good lawyer and take Derby to the cleaners.

 

[darkwolf666]

Hope he does. Derby are clearly trying to save themselves (more than) a few bob on wages on an ageing injured player, albeit he bears a large responsibility for his non-footballing injury. He needs to get himself a very good lawyer and take Derby to the cleaners.

Agree there must be some culpability on Keogh's part. I just can't see how, except on the basis of value, how they can sack one player, senior or not, yet retain the two "guilty" players, with nothing more than a slap on the wrist.

There simply HAS to be something we are not aware of...

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

All this and selling themselves their ground - it shows what can happen when clubs that consider themselves too big not to be in the Premier League - see Wednesday, Sheffield - start getting desperate. Any principles or ideas about fair play, financial or otherwise, fly out of the window.

I'd like to think we'd have continued to play things by the book if we hadn't gone up, but mainly I'm glad we've temporarily got our heads above the murky waters of the Championship.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

and gets into a car with another pissed person, gets into a crash and can't work for the rest of.. .

Agree with everything you've said, but that 'another pissed person' who broke the law and could have killed someone, keeps their job....

 

[rogersix]

All irrelevant when you consider they have sacked him for gross misconduct, yet they haven’t dismissed the 2 players who are equally as bad or did even worse simply because they are younger and more valuable to the club? This is an employment Lawyers dream case, Derby will be forced to pay up the contract, I would bet heavy on it.

I absolutely detest drunk drivers as well, a truly appalling crime IMO deserves much bigger punishments, I’ve always believed you should not be allowed to drive after any alcohol, eradicates all the idiots that claim ignorance.

Claiming ignorance won't get you anywhere when in front of the beak

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Obviously Lawrence took him out by being the driver, but Keogh put himself in that position. A poor decision that has cost him a lot.

Yes - it cost him his football career - now we don't know how long he would have played for, but he likely will never play again. It also possibly cost him the chance of playing at the Euros and in the PL (if Derby got promoted).

Just because Lawrence got a six week fine doesn't mean that is what Keogh should get. It simply doesn't work like that.

True - Lawrence was convicted of drunk driving - he crash a car, ran from the scene leaving an injured man unconscious and badly injured in the back seat - he got a six week fine - Keogh was drunk - didn't drive any car (can't - he doesn't know how to drive) - didn't crash into anyone - wasn't charged and convicted of any crime and was badly injured as a consequence of someone else's actions - now what do you think should happen to him given that Lawrence was fined six weeks wages?

I do agree however that money probably motivated Derby's approach, but as I said, what else are they to do? Keogh can't play for the rest of his contract.

Honour the contract - if they want to punish people by cancelling contract then Lawrence and Bennett should have had their contracts cancelled - they were the ones convicted of a crime - they were the ones who brought the club 'into disrepute' - but of course this has nothing to do with anything other than money.