[Albion] "Return to the Amex" questions

[NS Herald]

Post any questions you have here on how things may work, and I'll collate and send to the club...

From what I've seen, STH's won't be given a choice whether they want to be in the ballot - simple question - why not?

It just doesn't make sense for people who don't want to go (for whatever reason) to potentially receive tickets for games they don't want to go to when people who do want to go don't get them. I know there is an option to put them on the ticket exchange but why make that necessary when it doesn't have to happen in the first place?

Also how does this 'system' take into account the coach schemes that transports fans to games such as NWSS - how on earth will they be able to provide any sort of financially or logistically viable service when they don't know who will be going?

 

[WilburySeagull]

I thought it was clear it was a single ballot for all ST (excluding 1901). Not sure why anyone thinks there will be a shortage of low price tickets. Maybe a few NS regulars might have to go south. There is no provision in the ballot to buy up into a higher band. You would have to do that via the ticket exchange.

 

[Pondicherry]

As this was supposed to be a consultation I have an alternative (simpler) proposal to forward:

1. All season ticket money already taken for games that have not taken place is refunded to season ticket holders (it does not belong to the club and there is absolutely no guarantee that fans will be able to attend any games next season).
2. Tickets go on sale on a match by match basis to season ticket holders only
3. For the first game tickets go on sale based on current loyalty points.
4. For subsequent games tickets go on sale based on a new reverse loyalty points system (the more games you have attended, the further down the queue you go).

This way there is no need for ballots, everyone who wants to go to games should be able so see some (if there are any) and it copes with changing circumstances.

 

[WilburySeagull]

As this was supposed to be a consultation I have an alternative (simpler) proposal to forward:

1. All season ticket money already taken for games that have not taken place is refunded to season ticket holders (it does not belong to the club and there is absolutely no guarantee that fans will be able to attend any games next season).
2. Tickets go on sale on a match by match basis to season ticket holders only
3. For the first game tickets go on sale based on current loyalty points.
4. For subsequent games tickets go on sale based on a new reverse loyalty points system (the more games you have attended, the further down the queue you go).

This way there is no need for ballots, everyone who wants to go to games should be able so see some (if there are any) and it copes with changing circumstances.

The one thing that was clear last night is that the club admin is working at full capacity and cannot entertain the work required to do refunds at this time. Also your suggestion would leave the club in an even worse financial position than ot is already.

 

[blockhseagull]

As this was supposed to be a consultation I have an alternative (simpler) proposal to forward:

1. All season ticket money already taken for games that have not taken place is refunded to season ticket holders (it does not belong to the club and there is absolutely no guarantee that fans will be able to attend any games next season).
2. Tickets go on sale on a match by match basis to season ticket holders only
3. For the first game tickets go on sale based on current loyalty points.
4. For subsequent games tickets go on sale based on a new reverse loyalty points system (the more games you have attended, the further down the queue you go).

This way there is no need for ballots, everyone who wants to go to games should be able so see some (if there are any) and it copes with changing circumstances.

Doesn’t sound very simple.

Also what happens if by Jan the ground can open 100% ?

Who is going to manage the complicated new loyalty points system ?

I’m assuming when you mean simple... you mean suits your circumstances ?


What the club have come up with is the best under the current ‘movable’ conditions, everyone will miss out on something at some point and everyone needs to be flexible.

 

[Beach Hut]

That may be the case, but the club have done nothing to indicate whether there will be...

1 A single ballot for all STHs (ie excluding 1901ers)
2 Individual ballots per seat price banding

The fact that they did not mention different ballots per price banding last night, combined with a conversation I had with someone after the consultation last night, has me believing it's likely that it will be 1 above - a single ballot for all fans.

What may then happen if you have no choice but a more expensive seat is that your account cash balance is not reduced by 1/19th of your own ST cost, but 1/19th of the ST cost of the selected seat.

This is the question I went to the club with last night, and I'm still awaiting a response.

Yes I see the logic in that, will be interesting to see the answer and can now understand why your ST then becomes a pot of money so to speak.

 

[Beach Hut]

As this was supposed to be a consultation I have an alternative (simpler) proposal to forward:

1. All season ticket money already taken for games that have not taken place is refunded to season ticket holders (it does not belong to the club and there is absolutely no guarantee that fans will be able to attend any games next season).
2. Tickets go on sale on a match by match basis to season ticket holders only
3. For the first game tickets go on sale based on current loyalty points.
4. For subsequent games tickets go on sale based on a new reverse loyalty points system (the more games you have attended, the further down the queue you go).

This way there is no need for ballots, everyone who wants to go to games should be able so see some (if there are any) and it copes with changing circumstances.

Problem with option 1 is it costs a huge amount to the club doing refunds hence they are requesting this.

I think it was stated the home games last season under project restart cost the club in lost revenue over £1m per game of which we can all thank Uncle Tony who is taking that hit.

 

[Pondicherry]

The one thing that was clear last night is that the club admin is working at full capacity and cannot entertain the work required to do refunds at this time. Also your suggestion would leave the club in an even worse financial position than ot is already.

Obviously we all have our own viewpoint. The club is a relatively sophisticated medium sized business with a turnover of around £150 million. They also employ multiple individuals earning several million a year. In my view the club have the resources to employ the staff and the technology to do this. 23,000 refunds sounds a lot but I can assure you, in the world of payments processing, it is nothing. Personally I don't need a refund at the moment but I suspect that there are individuals who do. The general principle of the club taking money for something that they have not provided / don't know if they can provide, is not correct.

 

[Pondicherry]

Doesn’t sound very simple.

Also what happens if by Jan the ground can open 100% ?

Who is going to manage the complicated new loyalty points system ?

I’m assuming when you mean simple... you mean suits your circumstances ?


What the club have come up with is the best under the current ‘movable’ conditions, everyone will miss out on something at some point and everyone needs to be flexible.

If grounds open 100% in January (will not happen) then revert back to business as usual.
No one needs to manage the new loyalty points system. You just adapt the existing software that manages the current system.
What I mean by simple, is the the more complicated you make a process, the more likely it is to break down. So in general I thought the simplest way to allocate tickets (where the number available may vary) is to sell them based on a system we already use (away ticket sales and allocation). Its nothing to do with my circumstances to be honest. Personally would like to attend every game.

 

[Pondicherry]

Problem with option 1 is it costs a huge amount to the club doing refunds hence they are requesting this.

I think it was stated the home games last season under project restart cost the club in lost revenue over £1m per game of which we can all thank Uncle Tony who is taking that hit.

Yes I don't disagree. However despite this:

1. I think you should refund if you don't provide a service.
2. The club can't judge people's individual financial circumstances and we have no idea of Mr Bloom's circumstances.

I accept though that a football club is not a normal business and we all want it to do well which is not compatible necessarily with it providing refunds.

 

[Worthing exile]

As this was supposed to be a consultation I have an alternative (simpler) proposal to forward:

1. All season ticket money already taken for games that have not taken place is refunded to season ticket holders (it does not belong to the club and there is absolutely no guarantee that fans will be able to attend any games next season).
2. Tickets go on sale on a match by match basis to season ticket holders only
3. For the first game tickets go on sale based on current loyalty points.
4. For subsequent games tickets go on sale based on a new reverse loyalty points system (the more games you have attended, the further down the queue you go).

This way there is no need for ballots, everyone who wants to go to games should be able so see some (if there are any) and it copes with changing circumstances.

1. I think they are being quite reasonable in suspending DDs in September. They are not keeping it, just holding it as a credit on your account.
2. They clearly said last night that things might change quickly so they are holding ballots as late as possible. You can't have a ticket sale bin fest at short notice. What if we have two games in a week. What you are advocating is pandering to people who have time to sit waiting in a queue on the system. Some of us have to work and some older fans might not have a PC. An equal chance ballot is the fairest way.
3. There speaks someone with a decent amount of points already in the bag.
4. If you took the time to watch the meeting, you will understand why they can't keep changing who is in the ballot. It is a ballot for each match. Them is the rules.

I might not be successful in any ballots but I am not griping. I never won the lottery either but didn't write to them asking them to change the rules after every draw I lost.
This is a worldwide pandemic. Just be grateful that football is back.

 

[studio150]

As this was supposed to be a consultation I have an alternative (simpler) proposal to forward:

1. All season ticket money already taken for games that have not taken place is refunded to season ticket holders (it does not belong to the club and there is absolutely no guarantee that fans will be able to attend any games next season).
2. Tickets go on sale on a match by match basis to season ticket holders only
3. For the first game tickets go on sale based on current loyalty points.
4. For subsequent games tickets go on sale based on a new reverse loyalty points system (the more games you have attended, the further down the queue you go).

This way there is no need for ballots, everyone who wants to go to games should be able so see some (if there are any) and it copes with changing circumstances.

Thankfully we have PB rather than yourself dealing with such matters.

So under your illogical proposals.

Home game 1 Higher loyalty points priority
Homes games 2-19 Lower loyalty points priority

The only conculsion to draw from this, you have very few loyalty points but want to see as many games as possible.

There are many different ways you could go without a ballot, which are by far a lot fairer than your attempt.

Divide all the Amex blocks into 3 groups, so that group A attend match 1,4, 7.... B 2,5,8.... C 3,6,9.....
As blocks but by alphabetical order of STs

By going the route the club have, it is a system that they believe is the fairest and from an admisinstrive viewpoint one that they are more at ease with.

Yes someone could be selected 19 out of 19 times or 0 out of 19 times, but most should be able to attend around 6 games over the season. Also with the ticket exchange still in operation if you miss out in the lottery, there is still a chance that you can pick a ticket up.

You are never going to keep everyone happy on every decision.

 

[Brighton Rocker]

From what I've seen, STH's won't be given a choice whether they want to be in the ballot - simple question - why not?

It just doesn't make sense for people who don't want to go (for whatever reason) to potentially receive tickets for games they don't want to go to when people who do want to go don't get them. I know there is an option to put them on the ticket exchange but why make that necessary when it doesn't have to happen in the first place?

Also how does this 'system' take into account the coach schemes that transports fans to games such as NWSS - how on earth will they be able to provide any sort of financially or logistically viable service when they don't know who will be going?

I agree regarding people who don’t want to go but, Club don’t currently intend to shift on this.
Response from PB to my email this morning. Amazing short response time from PB as usual.

‘The Government’s current and clear advice’ has to be a joke. ��

Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately, we simply cannot afford to extend the ability for people to fully opt out beyond those the government classify as being extremely medically/clinically vulnerable. The Government’s current and clear advice is there is no need for anyone else to shield from every day life at this stage of the pandemic.

For our part, we have to balance looking after fans as best we can - and I think we are - with the economic viability of the club protecting jobs at the club, and the very significant operational challenges and costs of providing unlimited flexibility for all season ticket holders, who, in turn, have made an annual financial commitment.

The combination of opting out of 6 ballots and the flexibility of being able to sell tickets on the exchange should provide those people who do not wish to attend matches for a while longer with the additional help they may need, particularly if they opt out of the first 6 home matches. Distancing within the stadium further minimises risks to a very low level.

The current UK infection rate means that potential exposure to the virus is currently very low, exposure in outdoor areas or well ventilated spaces (concourses) is even lower still, and even with exposure to the virus, the risk of virus transmission is very low, and again even lower in outdoor or well ventilated spaces.

Best wishes, Paul

 

[southstandandy]

Still think the crowds on the train will be harder to control than the situation at the ground.

Will be a bit strange if there is likely to be crowding on many trains before a game then to see everyone spaced out around the stadium for social distancing purposes.

I know it's been mentioned that the club may ask people to stagger their journeys to equally space people out on the trains (even with a crowd of 7-8000), but that might require some to get to the ground hours before the game. Will many be willing to turn up maybe 3 or more hours before kick off to adhere to social distancing and spread their arrival times?

Maybe everyone attending will be perfect in their behaviour but I'd be surprised, especially as I still think the vast majority will travel this way with a relative lack of parking at the stadium.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

If people are asking the questions it means they don't know the answers.

Surely the club want people to be fully informed ?

I would have thought the people who wanted to be informed would have taken the trouble to go on the Q & A like the other 1000 supporters.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I would have thought the people who wanted to be informed would have taken the trouble to go on the Q & A like the other 1000 supporters.

Perhaps. Everyone else has to live in ignorance then ?

I'd have thought that putting the clear information out there is part of supporter services remit, but perhaps they don't see it the same way and arn't really interested ?

 

[blockhseagull]

If grounds open 100% in January (will not happen) then revert back to business as usual.
No one needs to manage the new loyalty points system. You just adapt the existing software that manages the current system.
What I mean by simple, is the the more complicated you make a process, the more likely it is to break down. So in general I thought the simplest way to allocate tickets (where the number available may vary) is to sell them based on a system we already use (away ticket sales and allocation). Its nothing to do with my circumstances to be honest. Personally would like to attend every game.

Business as usual ? How is that possible when you have refunded the money ?

Oh I know... loads more admin and costs for the club to foot

Of course someone needs to manage it ..... they said as much on the forum and they don’t have the staff to do it !!

I don’t see how it’s complicated.... it’s a ballot for every game, for which you can opt out of 6.

 

[blockhseagull]

Perhaps. Everyone else has to live in ignorance then ?

I'd have thought that putting the clear information out there is part of supporter services remit, but perhaps they don't see it the same way and arn't really interested ?

I’m sure they will put clear information out

When it’s the right time to do so

 

[Super Steve Earle]

Perhaps. Everyone else has to live in ignorance then ?

I'd have thought that putting the clear information out there is part of supporter services remit, but perhaps they don't see it the same way and arn't really interested ?

That's unworthy to suggest they aren't interested. This is the preliminary stage of a moving feast as the club made clear on the Q & A. They are very engaged and took the trouble to run the forum for those who were interested in joining the debate. To some extent, everyone else will indeed live in ignorance until everything is finalised. PB invited continuing emails from supporters and thanked all our fans for patience, support and understanding. I just feel it might be fairer on the club to let them get on with finalising matters before asking them to answer a raft of fan's questions they have already answered. I could answer most of the questions on the Q & A threads just from attending, but it would take a couple of hours. Why waste their time. They don't have limitless resources and will advise final outcomes after deliberations are completed with all the relevant stakeholders.

 

[studio150]

Perhaps. Everyone else has to live in ignorance then ?

I'd have thought that putting the clear information out there is part of supporter services remit, but perhaps they don't see it the same way and arn't really interested ?

Paul Barber as part of the PL team is meeting the Minister today to move the return of fans to grounds forwards.
This was stated by PB yesterday on the video conference.

Pending the outcome of this, the club isn't able to put out definitive information (particularly given the Governments numerous UTurns). It's not a case of not being interested, but wanting to put out information that won't be changed the next day after publishing.

Still if you drop PB an email I'm sure that you will receive an 83 page reply detailing everything down to the last millimetre