[Albion] Return of Fans

[Roadrunner]

PCR is a step too far, and clearly discriminates against those under 35 who would not have had their second jab by the start of the season. Why is a negative lateral flow test not acceptable.?

The problem with Lateral Flow testing is that, frankly, people will just lie and report a negative result whether they have tested positive or negative. Some won't even take the test; all you need to do is to scan in the QR code on the test strip and claim a negative result on the website to get your 'all-clear' email. Obvious way around this is to force people to take them on matchday in pre-turnstile holding areas as a condition of entry, but that would be expensive and a logistical nightmare.

 

[dsr-burnley]

I don't think that's correct. It was also easy to test earlier this year with peak 2. It is being spread around more easily because this variant is more robust, and because Boris has given the impression that freedom day is round the corner so people have been taking the piss. The reason death rate is so low is because this variant is clearly less likely to kill (that's how viruses evolve - it is not in their advantage to kill the host, or make the host isolate) and because diagnosis is quicker and treatments more effective. The latter may include the vaccine although I'm not persuaded that a fully vaccinated person can catch Covid at all; the statements to the contrary are most likely due to a misreading of the data and inclusion of non vaccinated people in the calculation. The provenance of the data is always an issue in clinical studies. In my area, the global rate of death from the disease I work on varies ten fold from country to country due almost entierly to variations in definitions used for diagnosis and reporting.

Edit: This is an interesting Q/A about flu and its vaccination. It is too early to say whether the same issues apply to Covid but I remember a year ago a virologist saying there were 50+ variant strains of Covid already but at the time they were all pretty similar in infectivity etc, albeit it was really too early for him to say that.

https://www.newscientist.com/lastwo...-viral-how-can-you-get-flu-after-vaccination/

The thing about Covid is that it is too risky to sit back and wait till the data are of sufficient unequivocal and pristine provenance to permit 100% certain concusions, and dealing with it is based on best guesses, supported as well as possible with modelling. The trouble is that once a plan is announced people backfill the decision process based on their presumptions. This is about as fruitful as backfilling an understanding of how Klopp trained to be a manager to explain how he won the Champion's league. Or how Potter kept us up. You can cook up a plausible yarn, but that's all it is.

I'm double vaccinated. Might I get Covid at the football? Maybe. Iestimate that I'm quite safe, until September/October when an new strain emerges that is not 'covered' by the current vaccine. Like flu which requires a new jab every year.

I'm not a virologist by the way, and will stand corrected if called out by one.

Apologies, final word (on flu):

"Vaccines are never 100 per cent effective in all people, although two doses of measles vaccine (as MMR) come close, giving more than 99 per cent protection.

Also, immunisation can result in a suboptimal immune response, for a variety of reasons: poor vaccine administration technique, for example, or because of other health problems affecting your immune system at the time.

It is important to note that even if you get infected by the influenza strain that is in the vaccine that year, it is likely that you will have a modified illness. Although it may feel like a bad case, the vaccine may have partially protected you from even more severe disease.

Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/lastwo...-you-get-flu-after-vaccination/#ixzz70aszmV2c
"

As far as I understand viruses, especially airborne viruses like this one, vaccines cannot stop anyone from catching it. The virus is in the air, you breathe it in, it gets into your lungs, it starts multiplying - and you have the virus. It is only after the virus gets into your lungs and starts multiplying that your body produces its antibodies, kills the viruses, and you are cured.

The thing the vaccine does is prime your body so it is ready to fight back. Instead of breathing in the virus and waiting a fortnight while the body analyses it and produces antibodies, the virus multiplying all the time. The immune system recognises the virus and has the template for antibodies ready to go. It fights back before the virus has a strong foothold and it destroys it before it does much damage.

In many cases, you would never know it's there. In other cases, the disease is less serious because, although it was still a battle, your side won because it was ready to go to war. (This is the first time, so far as I know, that asymptomatic diseases have ever been systematically tested for and included in official stats. When they count how many people are infected by flu, they don't count the ones who had no symptoms.)

 

[zefarelly]

Worthing or Westgate leisure centre in Chi have been doing them for a while fairly regularly !

I tried getting into Westgate in April, no chance, tried everyday for a week, gave up. Anyway, done now, its a moving target, The important thing is it's not quite job done yet, so for the majority to say **** the minority is not fair IMO.

I agree by the end of August it should be pretty much job done. It will all go nuts next week and the picture may well look a whole lot different by then. . .we will see.

 

[Arthur]

Plenty of availability almost daily in Crawley, Hayward’s Heath, Forest Row - https://www.sussexhealthandcare.uk/keepsussexsafe/sussex-covid-19-vaccination-programme/

Some information here https://www.sussexlive.co.uk/news/sussex-news/full-list-sussex-walk-vaccination-5598233

Thanks both, was completely unaware.

BUT great if you live on the coast not so much if you live in-land. For me personally Forest Row (which isn't listed on the sussex live link) isn't far but looks like that was Pfizer and I was AZ.

My first experience of the jab was at Tonbridge which was in a sports hall with a long snakey queue, took me an hour from time I got there until I got out so wasn't any hurry to go back. Yesterday, after I changed it (and that was only because a pal told me I could) I had it done in the local doctors and I must have been in and out within a couple of minutes.

 

[dsr-burnley]

I tried getting into Westgate in April, no chance, tried everyday for a week, gave up. Anyway, done now, its a moving target, The important thing is it's not quite job done yet, so for the majority to say **** the minority is not fair IMO.

I agree by the end of August it should be pretty much job done. It will all go nuts next week and the picture may well look a whole lot different by then. . .we will see.

From the beginning of May to 3rd July, there were over 250,000 cases of coronavirus in people under 30. There were 7 deaths. The dangers to the not-yet-vaccinated minority are very small.

 

[Lower West Stander]

I won’t be going unless things radically change.

The Government finds that 200 deaths a day is acceptable, I don’t want to be one of them, or give this , still deadly disease to my family and friends.

My 85 year old mum has said to me on a number of occasions that enough is enough. She’s double jabbed and wants to get on with her life because she doesn’t know how much time she’s got anyway.

I have her blessing to go and she may very well come with me if my son can’t make it. She’d love that.

There are different points of view obviously, but i do wonder about your thought process about when you would ever think it’s safe to go. This isn’t going away…..


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[studio150]

The problem with Lateral Flow testing is that, frankly, people will just lie and report a negative result whether they have tested positive or negative. Some won't even take the test; all you need to do is to scan in the QR code on the test strip and claim a negative result on the website to get your 'all-clear' email. Obvious way around this is to force people to take them on matchday in pre-turnstile holding areas as a condition of entry, but that would be expensive and a logistical nightmare.

However the NHS Covid Pass for events accepts a negative lateral flow test within the past 48 hours. It also accepts a negative PCR test within the last 48 hours. The only way to get an PCR result within 48 hours of a game, is to pay for a test. Why should youngsters need to do that given that they have been at the back of the queue for vaccination.

Next you will be telling me that the PL won't accept those that have been double jabbed if one of their jabs was the batch from India which the EU won't accept (currently)

But if the Covid Pass is effectively useless given the actions you describe, then it would seem pointless to make it compulsory to attend games.

 

[Springal]

My 85 year old mum has said to me on a number of occasions that enough is enough. She’s double jabbed and wants to get on with her life because she doesn’t know how much time she’s got anyway.

I have her blessing to go and she may very well come with me if my son can’t make it. She’d love that.

There are different points of view obviously, but i do wonder about your thought process about when you would ever think it’s safe to go. This isn’t going away…..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

agreed - my remaining grandparents are 91 and 89. I have barely seen them the last 18 months because we are 'protecting them' - but my grandad mobility has tanked so much from being stuck inside so much so he cannot really go out and about unaided now and if either of them died tomorrow then they'll have had a pretty grim last 18 months of their lives, rather than seeing family as regularly as they used to. What is better?

 

[Mellotron]

I won’t be going unless things radically change.

The Government finds that 200 deaths a day is acceptable, I don’t want to be one of them, or give this , still deadly disease to my family and friends.

To be fair - without wishing to sound like a covid-denier etc - we all see 1,600 deaths a day as acceptable, in "normal" times. Really what's key is excess deaths.

If they weren't significantly above average, there wouldn't really be any reason not to get on with things, would there?

 

[dazzer6666]

---

From the beginning of May to 3rd July, there were over 250,000 cases of coronavirus in people under 30. There were 7 deaths. The dangers to the not-yet-vaccinated minority are very small.

Also quite likely those 7 had other conditions………?

 

[Mellotron]

---

Also quite likely those 7 had other conditions………?

And of course, the 250,000 are the ones we know about, that were caught. Would've been far, far more mild/asymptomatic cases also.

Not denying, just bringing perspective.

 

[Roadrunner]

However the NHS Covid Pass for events accepts a negative lateral flow test within the past 48 hours. It also accepts a negative PCR test within the last 48 hours. The only way to get an PCR result within 48 hours of a game, is to pay for a test. Why should youngsters need to do that given that they have been at the back of the queue for vaccination.

Next you will be telling me that the PL won't accept those that have been double jabbed if one of their jabs was the batch from India which the EU won't accept (currently)

But if the Covid Pass is effectively useless given the actions you describe, then it would seem pointless to make it compulsory to attend games.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating any particular approach - I'm just highlighting that determined (selfish) people will find a way around whatever system is put in place. At Wembley on Sunday, people had screenshots of other people's Covid passport QR codes which they were using to get through the scurity ring. I'm struggling to come up with anything workable and have every smpathy with those trying to put something in place.

 

[studio150]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating any particular approach - I'm just highlighting that determined (selfish) people will find a way around whatever system is put in place. At Wembley on Sunday, people had screenshots of other people's Covid passport QR codes which they were using to get through the scurity ring. I'm struggling to come up with anything workable and have every smpathy with those trying to put something in place.

This must be giving PB a headache

 

[dwayne]

Agree with masks on public transport for now .... Confined spaces etc. That's logical.


Wearing a mask outside is absolutely ridiculous though. Really hope this is not implemented. You didn't need to wear a mask for the euros not sure why they would go back on this one.

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[Neville's Breakfast]

Agree with masks on public transport for now .... Confined spaces etc. That's logical.


Wearing a mask outside is absolutely ridiculous though. Really hope this is not implemented. You didn't need to wear a mask for the euros not sure why they would go back on this one.

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I will be wearing a mask at the football. It is clearly safer to wear one than not wear one so not ridiculous at all. I certainly won’t be influenced by people who aren’t putting mine and my wife’s safety first.

 

[ac gull]

EPL will need to have an overall policy / protocol that applies to all clubs

Issues to me are some concourses are dead small - as in Wolves stand lower tier along side of pitch, Villa Park, Goodison and Old Trafford were all cramped to me - so no great surprise if mask wearing on concourses whilst queuing is a requirement

Or just stop selling pints / or let you drink them in the stands would be obvious answers - but cannot see either being a starter really

Only large concourses are Amex and Etihad where far more space

 

[drew]

From the beginning of May to 3rd July, there were over 250,000 cases of coronavirus in people under 30. There were 7 deaths. The dangers to the not-yet-vaccinated minority are very small.

How many of those now have long covid?

 

[drew]

I will be wearing a mask at the football. It is clearly safer to wear one than not wear one so not ridiculous at all. I certainly won’t be influenced by people who aren’t putting mine and my wife’s safety first.

To be fair, you're not safer because you're wearing one unless it is a full FFP3 mask. The masks we wear are to stop us spreading it to others, not the other way around. So, if you were the only one in the ground wearing a mask (and I hope to god you aren't) then you will probably have the same risk as everyone else.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

To be fair, you're not safer because you're wearing one unless it is a full FFP3 mask. The masks we wear are to stop us spreading it to others, not the other way around. So, if you were the only one in the ground wearing a mask (and I hope to god you aren't) then you will probably have the same risk as everyone else.

I know you are quoting what we have all been told, but I still don't understand how wasting a mask stops the virus leaving my nose and mouth to infect people but effortlessly let's me breathe the virus in. My masks have 3 layers yet apparently the virus can get in through them, but not out

 

[Billy the Fish]

If people are genuinely that worried they shouldn't be at a crowded football match, or at the very least shouldn't be hanging around on a packed concourse. There's still a good chance of catching it in those circumstances, even with a mask.