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[Misc] Retirement



Carlos BC

Well-known member
May 10, 2019
549
I'm going to talk to the bank but always good to get advice.
Looking at trying to save about £750 pm (paid off mortgage) is it best to stick in an ISA or put in my pension?
I've got a draw down pension but reluctant to pay too much tax pa. I'm 59 and wanting to go part time in two years or so.
Any advice is welcome before I speak to the bank.
It all depends on what you want to do with your life, the income you need when going part time and in retirement. Plus probably a few other variables, we are all different. The pension you will get tax relief on the way in as previously mentioned but may pay tax when taking an income from it. ISAs are a great tax wrapper and the money going is from taxed income so no tax to pay when accessing. Happy to have a chat and give you a steer in the right direction if helpful, just drop me a DM. 🙂
 




timbha

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
10,515
Sussex
I'm going to talk to the bank but always good to get advice.
Looking at trying to save about £750 pm (paid off mortgage) is it best to stick in an ISA or put in my pension?
I've got a draw down pension but reluctant to pay too much tax pa. I'm 59 and wanting to go part time in two years or so.
Any advice is welcome before I speak to the bank.
obv depends on your personal circumstances eg other savings, need to access cash, pension contributions to date, health, marginal income tax rate.

An cash ISA is less risky but the returns are potentially lower. An equity ISA is more risky but with greater potential for growth (or loss). Both with no tax payable on any growth or withdrawal.

Your pension contributions (£750pm) will be grossed up (probably) by your marginal (highest) income tax rate but any drawdown will be treated as taxable income, except the 25% of the pot that you may be able to take tax free. If you are currently a higher rate tax payer and when you decide to drawdown your pension you will be a basic rate tax payer, pension contributions might be a good option.

But you are correct, you should seek professional advice regardless of how well meaning NSC might be
 


raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
7,385
Wiltshire
The UK has a long history of non-state pension provision too eg 18.4m in defined benefit schemes and 25.3m with defined contribution plans. Financed in part by £42b from the public purse each year in tax relief, in addition the public purse pays out £28.5b each year (not from a fund) to today’s retired civil servants, ex armed forces, teachers and NHS staff. It’s a totally different system than others dependent on a state pension elsewhere. Giving:

View attachment 158059
Interesting post, thanks
 


nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
18,580
Gods country fortnightly
It’s far worse than that (or better if you’re a wealthy doctor, footballer, TV presenter or executive).

They receive 45% immediate tax relief as pension contributions are paid, one way or another.

So, assuming just for this purpose there’s no investment growth (which does not negate the point), 30 years x £40,000 in contributions = £1.2m, only costs the individual a net £660,000 in cash terms, the public purse either directly to the pot or by immediately reducing their annual tax bill picking up the £540,000.

To summarise, the IHT free pot of up to £1.8m if these plans go ahead, includes a vast sum of tax relief gifted by the state to the wealthy individual.
The whole thing doesn't sit well with me. Tomorrow we have 2 days of teacher strikes because they are being denied a decent pay reward after a decade of pay erosion.

Yet this is a tax break that is designed to ensure the wealthiest families will stay wealthy through the generations. It will interesting to see whether there is any backlash
 


Weststander

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2011
69,327
Withdean area




dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
55,593
Burgess Hill
The whole thing doesn't sit well with me. Tomorrow we have 2 days of teacher strikes because they are being denied a decent pay reward after a decade of pay erosion.

Yet this is a tax break that is designed to ensure the wealthiest families will stay wealthy through the generations. It will interesting to see whether there is any backlash
…..yet they have pretty much the best final salary pension available anywhere.
 


dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
55,593
Burgess Hill


Weststander

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2011
69,327
Withdean area
It raises very little actual revenue doesn’t it ? Personally I would scrap or reduce significantly the tax relief on contributions - do that and the LTA becomes redundant.
That’s what I said in post 594, basic rate tax relief for all, giving a level playing field. For everyone, £100 of investment costing the individual £80 and public purse £20.
 




Super Steve Earle

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2009
8,931
North of Brighton
The whole thing doesn't sit well with me. Tomorrow we have 2 days of teacher strikes because they are being denied a decent pay reward after a decade of pay erosion.

Yet this is a tax break that is designed to ensure the wealthiest families will stay wealthy through the generations. It will interesting to see whether there is any backlash
Pushing it a bit to link teacher strikes which affect all the children who have already lost weeks of education to Covid, with 'wealthiest families'. I doubt many will conflate the two nor is a backlash likely. £1m in a pension pot isn't going to get close to generating the returns that many individuals earned in their working lives and, like it or not, some people earn quite a lot of money. That aside, the unintended consequence of George Osborne's pension tax regime was that high earners in jobs all of us needed filled, like GP's, saw no reason to put the hours in and went into retirement or part time. That's one of the reasons why you and I can't get a GP appointment in less than 2 weeks.
 


sparkie

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2003
13,274
Hove
…..yet they have pretty much the best final salary pension available anywhere.
Indeed. It'd be interesting to see how big a pension pot someone would need to match the pension of a long serving teacher. Pretty big I reckon.

My mother gets £15K per year from her teachers pension ( she gets state pension as well ). With the 4% per year drawdown suggestion the equivalent pot is approaching £400K ( I think ).
 


timbha

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
10,515
Sussex
It raises very little actual revenue doesn’t it ? Personally I would scrap or reduce significantly the tax relief on contributions - do that and the LTA becomes redundant.
Exactly. By playing the system, if you are a higher tax rate payer and stash away as much as you can in your pension in your final working years you can make a big profit in a short period when you take 25% tax free and pay low rate tax on the remainder. All this if you are 55 (might have gone up).
 




sparkie

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2003
13,274
Hove
Exactly. By playing the system, if you are a higher tax rate payer and stash away as much as you can in your pension in your final working years you can make a big profit in a short period when you take 25% tax free and pay low rate tax on the remainder. All this if you are 55 (might have gone up).
Unless Mr Hunt ( or a following Chancellor) changes it, it is 55 now and goes up to 57 in 2028.
 


nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
18,580
Gods country fortnightly
Pushing it a bit to link teacher strikes which affect all the children who have already lost weeks of education to Covid, with 'wealthiest families'. I doubt many will conflate the two nor is a backlash likely. £1m in a pension pot isn't going to get close to generating the returns that many individuals earned in their working lives and, like it or not, some people earn quite a lot of money. That aside, the unintended consequence of George Osborne's pension tax regime was that high earners in jobs all of us needed filled, like GP's, saw no reason to put the hours in and went into retirement or part time. That's one of the reasons why you and I can't get a GP appointment in less than 2 weeks.
I've used the teachers as an example because giving generous pension breaks to the top 2% shouldn't be a priority right now. Yet somehow they've managed it.
 


dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
55,593
Burgess Hill
Indeed. It'd be interesting to see how big a pension pot someone would need to match the pension of a long serving teacher. Pretty big I reckon.

My mother gets £15K per year from her teachers pension ( she gets state pension as well ). With the 4% per year drawdown suggestion the equivalent pot is approaching £400K ( I think ).
From what I’ve read, a middle ranking teacher could easily retire on a pension of 40k pa at 60. That requires a 1.5m+ pot for anyone on a DC scheme….well over the current LTA.
 




Weststander

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2011
69,327
Withdean area
Pushing it a bit to link teacher strikes which affect all the children who have already lost weeks of education to Covid, with 'wealthiest families'. I doubt many will conflate the two nor is a backlash likely. £1m in a pension pot isn't going to get close to generating the returns that many individuals earned in their working lives and, like it or not, some people earn quite a lot of money. That aside, the unintended consequence of George Osborne's pension tax regime was that high earners in jobs all of us needed filled, like GP's, saw no reason to put the hours in and went into retirement or part time. That's one of the reasons why you and I can't get a GP appointment in less than 2 weeks.

95% of people in this country would give anything for a £1m pension pot.

Giving £250,000 tax free and at a very conservative 4% giving annual income of £30,000 for decades. Add the £20,800 state pension for a couple at 66 or 67. In a non-mortgaged home in retirement.

Wealthy individuals also have vast sums in stock and shares ISA’s.

Meanwhile millions worry about heating their home, buying sufficient food.
 


Weststander

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2011
69,327
Withdean area
I've used the teachers as an example because giving generous pension breaks to the top 2% shouldn't be a priority right now. Yet somehow they've managed it.
And Labour agree, Wes Streeting stated Labour’s plan, the Tory’s have copied it. The argument, worth it to get the wealthy such as surgeons back to work.
 


A mex eyecan

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2011
3,885
From what I’ve read, a middle ranking teacher could easily retire on a pension of 40k pa at 60. That requires a 1.5m+ pot for anyone on a DC scheme….well over the current LTA.
i wonder what that would cost someone each year to build a 1.5m pot
 


sparkie

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2003
13,274
Hove
Today's the day.

Let's see how the retirement landscape changes.

I'm praying he has to give notice of increasing the Normal Minimum Pension Age from 55 before 2028 - surely the pension companies would need time to implement any changes. Hopefully my summer isn't ruined.

Beyond that they've certainly trial-ballooned bringing forward the age at which state pension kicks in to 68. Just a question of when the new date is.

Increasing the MPAA to £10K looks like a potential positive change.

12:30 today.
 
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DJ NOBO

Well-known member
Jul 18, 2004
6,819
Wiltshire
i wonder what that would cost someone each year to build a 1.5m pot
Couple of grand in your pension every month from about the age of 30, should do it
 


PILTDOWN MAN

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 15, 2004
19,635
Hurst Green
Today's the day.

Let's see how the retirement landscape changes.

I'm praying he has to give notice of increasing the Normal Minimum Pension Age from 55 - surely the pension companies would need time to implement any changes. Hopefully my summer isn't ruined.

Beyond that they've certainly trial-ballooned bringing forward the age at which state pension kicks in to 68. Just a question of when the new date is.

Increasing the MPAA to £10K looks like a potential positive change.

12:30 today.
Bloody hope so I want to tap into one of my pensions when I'm 55. 26 days away.
 


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