And there was me thinking I was the King at shoe-horning St John into as many posts as possible ��
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[Food] Restaurant 2019 Thread
- Thread starter Machiavelli
- Start date
And there was me thinking I was the King at shoe-horning St John into as many posts as possible ��
St John, EC1 - 1 star.
Oh how I wanted to enjoy this place - dining at the home of nose-to-tail eating appealed; not to mention the fear of having to write a dissenting opinion to that espoused by the doyen of NSC’s burger reviewers, a man I’ve only met once - at the last home game - and whom I’m going to meet again at tonight’s game (and again later, in Fourth & Church).
“Be brave”, says the good lady Doctor her indoors, lying next to me in bed, “tell the truth”. “But it’s all a matter of opinions”, say I. She sighs expansively, “Then tell your truth”, and rolls over to go back to sleep.
Gulp. I really, really didn’t like it.
I feel like I owe a fairly extensive explanation, so here goes.
I’m unused to having to push through a crowded outside area and then crowded courtyard full of drunk 20 somethings to get to the dining room. The presence of a bouncer (a first for me at a 1 star establishment) didn’t help. I was bemused at finding a paper tablecloth (of the type seen at cheap Chinatown restaurants) on the table, and also at the presence of 50p round wine glasses of the type your Nan has, providing she hasn’t loaned them to the local Harvester.
Never mind - all this is fine, providing the food is exceptional, I think. I’d eat off the floor if the food is brilliant.
The menu reads well, and the specials - read to us by a bored-looking woman in badly stained kitchen whites - were a pleasant addition. We ordered the crispy duck salad, the bone marrow (gotta be done, right?), the fag*ots and mash, the sweetbreads, and a side of “greens”. We also ordered a very nice bottle of grand cru Alsatian riesling (followed later by a second). They took our cheap wine glasses away on hearing our order. “Proper wine, proper glasses” - I whisper to my partner. They bring back the thickest rimmed ISO tasting glasses I’ve ever seen. Tasting glass bowls are far too small for an expressive riesling, and for God’s sake don’t buy them in Lakeland.
Stay calm. It’ll be fine. The food is going to blow you away.
Dear reader, it didn’t.
The crispy duck (which turned out to be gizzards) was burnt and crunchy and over salted, the bone marrow was fine, but nothing more - if you’ve ever sucked on the cut end of a roast leg of lamb bone you’ve had this before, the sweetbreads were, err, tasteless, one of the fag*ots had something chewy enough inside it that I had to spit that piece out, the mash was watery and lumpy, and the bowl of greens (perfectly cooked hispi cabbage) had 3/4 inch of cooking water in the bottom.
“There’s just no love for this food in the kitchen”, say I.
“Do you want a pudding?” says the GLDHI. I exhale deeply. “I’d only be disappointed”.
The bill arrives. £13 for crunchy duck gizzards? £13 for something that the duck farmer would pay you to dispose for him? £23 for 2 fag*ots? £5.50 for a small bowl of cabbage? Paper tablecloths? The cheapest wine glasses money can buy? It all clicks into place. Fergus used to be a man who was at the cutting edge of cooking - he’s now interested solely in making money.
We push dejectedly back through the slightly smaller but drunker crowd of 20 somethings, back past the bouncer (who I’m prepared to swear gave me a pitying smile).
We go round the corner for a single malt and for me to start thinking about just how honest I was going to be.
Sorry, [MENTION=409]Herr Tubthumper[/MENTION]. I really am.
Oh how I wanted to enjoy this place - dining at the home of nose-to-tail eating appealed; not to mention the fear of having to write a dissenting opinion to that espoused by the doyen of NSC’s burger reviewers, a man I’ve only met once - at the last home game - and whom I’m going to meet again at tonight’s game (and again later, in Fourth & Church).
“Be brave”, says the good lady Doctor her indoors, lying next to me in bed, “tell the truth”. “But it’s all a matter of opinions”, say I. She sighs expansively, “Then tell your truth”, and rolls over to go back to sleep.
Gulp. I really, really didn’t like it.
I feel like I owe a fairly extensive explanation, so here goes.
I’m unused to having to push through a crowded outside area and then crowded courtyard full of drunk 20 somethings to get to the dining room. The presence of a bouncer (a first for me at a 1 star establishment) didn’t help. I was bemused at finding a paper tablecloth (of the type seen at cheap Chinatown restaurants) on the table, and also at the presence of 50p round wine glasses of the type your Nan has, providing she hasn’t loaned them to the local Harvester.
Never mind - all this is fine, providing the food is exceptional, I think. I’d eat off the floor if the food is brilliant.
The menu reads well, and the specials - read to us by a bored-looking woman in badly stained kitchen whites - were a pleasant addition. We ordered the crispy duck salad, the bone marrow (gotta be done, right?), the fag*ots and mash, the sweetbreads, and a side of “greens”. We also ordered a very nice bottle of grand cru Alsatian riesling (followed later by a second). They took our cheap wine glasses away on hearing our order. “Proper wine, proper glasses” - I whisper to my partner. They bring back the thickest rimmed ISO tasting glasses I’ve ever seen. Tasting glass bowls are far too small for an expressive riesling, and for God’s sake don’t buy them in Lakeland.
Stay calm. It’ll be fine. The food is going to blow you away.
Dear reader, it didn’t.
The crispy duck (which turned out to be gizzards) was burnt and crunchy and over salted, the bone marrow was fine, but nothing more - if you’ve ever sucked on the cut end of a roast leg of lamb bone you’ve had this before, the sweetbreads were, err, tasteless, one of the fag*ots had something chewy enough inside it that I had to spit that piece out, the mash was watery and lumpy, and the bowl of greens (perfectly cooked hispi cabbage) had 3/4 inch of cooking water in the bottom.
“There’s just no love for this food in the kitchen”, say I.
“Do you want a pudding?” says the GLDHI. I exhale deeply. “I’d only be disappointed”.
The bill arrives. £13 for crunchy duck gizzards? £13 for something that the duck farmer would pay you to dispose for him? £23 for 2 fag*ots? £5.50 for a small bowl of cabbage? Paper tablecloths? The cheapest wine glasses money can buy? It all clicks into place. Fergus used to be a man who was at the cutting edge of cooking - he’s now interested solely in making money.
We push dejectedly back through the slightly smaller but drunker crowd of 20 somethings, back past the bouncer (who I’m prepared to swear gave me a pitying smile).
We go round the corner for a single malt and for me to start thinking about just how honest I was going to be.
Sorry, [MENTION=409]Herr Tubthumper[/MENTION]. I really am.
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Machiavelli
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #243
I'm in trepidation for tonight!
Machiavelli
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #244
My invite seems to have got lost in the post again
We've ordered a complementary one at Burger Bros to keep you happy
On a more serious note, [MENTION=27447]Goldstone1976[/MENTION] and I have previously communicated about doing a NSC wine tasting at some point. If there's enough interest we could do that, but an alternative would be that the restaurant thread get together for something to eat at some point, perhaps to celebrate? acknowledge? commiserate? our return to the Championship. We could even pick the venue accordingly, so if it is the Championship, what's the worst restaurant that Brighton has to offer?
We've ordered a complementary one at Burger Bros to keep you happy
On a more serious note, [MENTION=27447]Goldstone1976[/MENTION] and I have previously communicated about doing a NSC wine tasting at some point. If there's enough interest we could do that, but an alternative would be that the restaurant thread get together for something to eat at some point, perhaps to celebrate? acknowledge? commiserate? our return to the Championship. We could even pick the venue accordingly, so if it is the Championship, what's the worst restaurant that Brighton has to offer?
Curry, hun? x
I’d be up for either...
Goldstone won't be disappointed tonight !
Machiavelli
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #247
By the football? The food? The wine I impose on him?
Hmmm .... last two. The first I suspect may be slightly ... well ... challenging !
Machiavelli
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #249
I was hoping for a clean sweep
Well, I admire your honesty.
Interesting review for sure.
Agenda for tonight:
1) The Dale Stevens inspired 2-0 victory over Newcastle
2) St John.
See you soon!
Well, I admire your honesty.
Interesting review for sure.
Agenda for tonight:
1) The Dale Stevens inspired 2-0 victory over Newcastle
2) St John.
See you soon!
Phew. I was worried that you’d never speak to me again!
Your agenda seems very reasonable. See you later.
UTA
Machiavelli
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #252
Well, I admire your honesty.
Interesting review for sure.
Agenda for tonight:
1) The Dale Stevens inspired 2-0 victory over Newcastle
2) St John.
See you soon!
Phew. We've got an inspirational new player that's going to drive us to victory and, as a consequence, safety.
McTavish
Well-known member
- Nov 5, 2014
- 1,587
We've ordered a complementary one at Burger Bros to keep you happy
On a more serious note, [MENTION=27447]Goldstone1976[/MENTION] and I have previously communicated about doing a NSC wine tasting at some point. If there's enough interest we could do that, but an alternative would be that the restaurant thread get together for something to eat at some point, perhaps to celebrate? acknowledge? commiserate? our return to the Championship. We could even pick the venue accordingly, so if it is the Championship, what's the worst restaurant that Brighton has to offer?
As an infrequent contributer but avid reader of this thread, I would be delighted to be involved with either.
Fourth & Church Hoveactually
Oh how I wanted to like this place. Wait a minute, haven’t I done that review?
Well, I did want to like it - having dissed a frequent contributor to this thread’s favourite restaurant yesterday, I really didn’t want to have to repeat the performance with another frequent contributor’s recommended place coming in for a pasting. There’s only so many people one can safely piss off at a time.
No need to - I thought it was great.
Between the four of us, we ate about half the menu, and I lost count of how many wines we drank after we’d had five. The food was carefully prepared and plated and each dish tasted very different from the last - hard to achieve if you’re preparing 20 different small plates. Stand out dishes for me were the mixed charcuterie platter (a ludicrous quantity of different meats for £14 - made all the better given the orderer ordered it despite his wife being a non-meat eater thus ensuring only three could share it), the smoked herring, the lamb, and the beef tartare.
While the much-praised cauliflower dish was lovely (they all were to be honest), it wasn’t the best dish in our opinion. The other male member of our group - you know, the one that recommended that we go to this particular wine bar/restaurant (I won’t name him because I don’t want him to get any grief from the poster who absolutely loves this dish. Oh no) - slightly cruelly but amusingly accurately described it as “coronation chicken without the chicken”.
The wines were stunning. Served in PROPER wine glasses which were changed without anyone asking, just as routine, with every new wine. Just as it should be. It’s very impressive that they stock such good wines, and equally so that [MENTION=28490]Machiavelli[/MENTION] (oh bugger, I’ve named him) chose such excellent selections. I’m very glad that he’s volunteered to organise the “NSC wine tasting” event. He’ll make an excellent organiser. I’ll assist as requested, of course. Stand out wines for me were an excellent fino, a great Mosel riesling (bought because mine host had remembered that the GLDHI had said she liked riesling - classy move), and an intense Amarone from, err, Italy.
The staff were superlative - attentive, knowledgeable, relaxed, and prepared to have a laugh with us.
[MENTION=409]Herr Tubthumper[/MENTION] was in with a group of three others (were they ALL called Herr Tubthumper? Certainly one other of his party was). He popped over occasionally to our table to tell me his latest thought about how wrong my review of St John was. No, that’s wrong, and was said for comedic effect - he agreed with some of my points and disagreed about others - just a civilised discussion. Very pleasant. After the last of his group left, he joined us, and drank our wine.
(Shall I add that he offered to contribute to the bill when it came, and I told him to f*ck off? No, I don’t think I will).
I have no idea what time we left. It was that sort of evening - good food, good wine, good company. Perfect.
Oh how I wanted to like this place. Wait a minute, haven’t I done that review?
Well, I did want to like it - having dissed a frequent contributor to this thread’s favourite restaurant yesterday, I really didn’t want to have to repeat the performance with another frequent contributor’s recommended place coming in for a pasting. There’s only so many people one can safely piss off at a time.
No need to - I thought it was great.
Between the four of us, we ate about half the menu, and I lost count of how many wines we drank after we’d had five. The food was carefully prepared and plated and each dish tasted very different from the last - hard to achieve if you’re preparing 20 different small plates. Stand out dishes for me were the mixed charcuterie platter (a ludicrous quantity of different meats for £14 - made all the better given the orderer ordered it despite his wife being a non-meat eater thus ensuring only three could share it), the smoked herring, the lamb, and the beef tartare.
While the much-praised cauliflower dish was lovely (they all were to be honest), it wasn’t the best dish in our opinion. The other male member of our group - you know, the one that recommended that we go to this particular wine bar/restaurant (I won’t name him because I don’t want him to get any grief from the poster who absolutely loves this dish. Oh no) - slightly cruelly but amusingly accurately described it as “coronation chicken without the chicken”.
The wines were stunning. Served in PROPER wine glasses which were changed without anyone asking, just as routine, with every new wine. Just as it should be. It’s very impressive that they stock such good wines, and equally so that [MENTION=28490]Machiavelli[/MENTION] (oh bugger, I’ve named him) chose such excellent selections. I’m very glad that he’s volunteered to organise the “NSC wine tasting” event. He’ll make an excellent organiser. I’ll assist as requested, of course. Stand out wines for me were an excellent fino, a great Mosel riesling (bought because mine host had remembered that the GLDHI had said she liked riesling - classy move), and an intense Amarone from, err, Italy.
The staff were superlative - attentive, knowledgeable, relaxed, and prepared to have a laugh with us.
[MENTION=409]Herr Tubthumper[/MENTION] was in with a group of three others (were they ALL called Herr Tubthumper? Certainly one other of his party was). He popped over occasionally to our table to tell me his latest thought about how wrong my review of St John was. No, that’s wrong, and was said for comedic effect - he agreed with some of my points and disagreed about others - just a civilised discussion. Very pleasant. After the last of his group left, he joined us, and drank our wine.
(Shall I add that he offered to contribute to the bill when it came, and I told him to f*ck off? No, I don’t think I will).
I have no idea what time we left. It was that sort of evening - good food, good wine, good company. Perfect.
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Machiavelli
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #255
You're too kind Goldstone. And I enjoyed the anchovy dish enormously, and I seem to remember being exceptionally fond of the Douro(?, it was Portuguese anyway) we had at the (I think) end of the evening.
I’ll first set the scene. I have followed [MENTION=27447]Goldstone1976[/MENTION]’s posts with great interest for some time and I enjoy his writing, his thoughts and his recommendations. And we recently introduced ourselves after realising we sit very close to each other at the AMEX. The news he was visiting St John was met with excitement and I looked forward to the review. I have also told him this. Then Saturday morning came
These days my default setting when faced with adversity, disappointment, woe or the unexpected is to giggle to myself. I don’t know why this happens but it does, instinctively. And that was what happened when I read the review. I also thought oh dear, and oh ****. And just to be clear it was the “unexpected” and “disappointment” elements of my list, nothing else. And it was disappointing because I really like the place.
I understand and totally get some of the comments, via my choices I’ve not been exposed to others, and I politely disagree about the bone marrow.
Yes, you do have to ease your way through a busy boozy bar area. I have also seen the bouncer. From my experience this is particularly bad on a Friday as it’s an energised post work crowd; lunch times and Saturday evening bring a different demographic, and therefore a different vibe.
I always immediately order a glass of champagne and a bottle of fizzy water at such restaurants. From memory I think this comes with a reboot of the glass wear on my table. My point being I don’t remember cheap wine glasses on the table. They’re probably there but removed in the swirl of activity which comes with that first order of mine. I have never ordered a side a St John (I take two starters and forsake sides) so I have not experienced the greens swimming in water. But, I do remember once ordering kidneys and mash....the mash partially as described above ie watery. My mash was at a temperature more associated with microwave than gas hob, but surely not? And lumps are inexcusable. My ******s were fine.
I disagree about the bone marrow though. To me, it’s a lot more than the sum of its parts. Sure it’s simple. But boy does it taste good. Toasted sour dough, lots of bone marrow, liberal sea salt and a healthy dollop of parsley salad is a lovely flavour and textural combination to me. I could eat this until....er, my heart explodes.
I hear the “love” comment. Whilst I have not experienced some of the issues, some love, and its bed fellow attention, would surely remedy crap mash, bits in your f@ggots and water with your greens?
And there’s really no need to apologise.
There’s something undeniably exciting when a chirpy waitress unexpectedly brings you a drink and says “this is from table blah blah over there”. I straighten my shirt, sit upright with a “ still got it, never lost it” new found feeling of confidence and allure and wonder which group of beautiful young things are now waiting to catch my eye as I prepare to break some hearts with a “thank you, but sorry, I’m married”. Thankfully no hearts were broken as this was a very kind gesture from [MENTION=27447]Goldstone1976[/MENTION] and [MENTION=28490]Machiavelli[/MENTION] and their respective better halves. A nice way to start the evening for sure.
Food wise, I had just three dishes plus cheese. The chicken parfait which was okay, the cauliflower I liked on many levels, the smoked herring was really nice as well. We were focusing on alcohol as opposed to food though.
Further, I am a real novice when it comes to wine. I have never paid it as much attention as, say craft beer, but I’m keen to learn. It was therefore, amongst other reasons, nice to spend some time with the aforementioned table after my table had departed. Their generosity continued as I shared a couple more glasses, learnt a bit more about wine, and was then told to **** off when I offered to contribute. It was a polite **** off though.
I can’t remember when I left either, but I do know my last train had long gone. And yes, good food, good wine and good company plus a season saving point. Alles gut and I really like F&C.
I'm going to have to check this place out when I'm back in the summer.
Bone marrow fans might appreciate this fine example I had a couple of weeks back in Tarragona:
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Pogue Mahone
Well-known member
- Apr 30, 2011
- 10,949
I can confirm that I am not called Herr Tubthumper. Sorry I failed to introduce myself properly.