[Food] Restaurant 2018

[Yes Chef]

Going back to your original post you make a good point about using it, or losing it. Jay Rayner has written some good pieces recently about this topic, and challenging common arguments about pricing in restaurants. I’ll see if I can dig them out.

Edit: here’s one

If you want to be able to eat out, you should fork out
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...ner-eat-out-fork-out-cost-of-restaurant-meals

I would give this 20 thumbs up if I could

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I would give this 20 thumbs up if I could

Agree. I have a lot of time for Jay Rayner. His food reviews are great and in tune with my tastes but his broader writing about food and restaurants raises many good points.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Lunch in the Snowdrop in Lewes at the weekend.

Menu is a bit confused with some odds, annoying items (beetroot mash with liver ffs, there's normal mash elsewhere on the menu just use that) so wasn't overly confident when we got there but my GOD they can cook a burger. 13 quid with fries and salad means it's not the cheapest but you won't find much better, indeed I rate it above the Coggings and Co burger. The salad was a proper dressed effort too, not just some leaves thrown on the board (this was a bit annyoing but it was a covered wooden baord with some parchment type paper).

Sticky toffee pudding was passable, though nothing on the ofrering at Busby and Wilds which is the best dessert in the world.

The beer is great in there, good variety and it's kept very well.

Really good experience all in all. 8/10

 

[Beach Hut]

Going back to your original post you make a good point about using it, or losing it. Jay Rayner has written some good pieces recently about this topic, and challenging common arguments about pricing in restaurants. I’ll see if I can dig them out.

Edit: here’s one

If you want to be able to eat out, you should fork out
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...ner-eat-out-fork-out-cost-of-restaurant-meals

Whist interesting there is also the perception of what is value for money. Appreciate some whinge for the sake of it but I think commenting of value for money is useful as well.

 

[Bozza]

Whist interesting there is also the perception of what is value for money. Appreciate some whinge for the sake of it but I think commenting of value for money is useful as well.

Value does not equal cheap.

I’ve derived more value from a meal costing in excess of £100 per head than many costing £10 per head.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Going back to your original post you make a good point about using it, or losing it. Jay Rayner has written some good pieces recently about this topic, and challenging common arguments about pricing in restaurants. I’ll see if I can dig them out.

Edit: here’s one

If you want to be able to eat out, you should fork out
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...ner-eat-out-fork-out-cost-of-restaurant-meals

I agree with Rayner .... to a point. I'm fully prepared to pay the correct price for eating out BUT it still has to be value for money - not just the food itself but the service and experience. You can get some cracking deals from independents in the city - Semolina, Cin Cin, The Witchez to name a handful - yet you can also get the pretentious over-hyped, over priced stuff - 64 Degrees ( yes, controversial I know ) and to a lesser extent Hotel Du Vin as an example.

Rayner also fails to address the saturation of the market - here and London suffer from this in particular. I use both independents and chains but my use of the later is never at the cost of the former - it often depends on if I fancy a very quick cheap bite over a luxurious meal.

 

[Beach Hut]

I agree with Rayner .... to a point. I'm fully prepared to pay the correct price for eating out BUT it still has to be value for money - not just the food itself but the service and experience. You can get some cracking deals from independents in the city - Semolina, Cin Cin, The Witchez to name a handful - yet you can also get the pretentious over-hyped, over priced stuff - 64 Degrees ( yes, controversial I know ) and to a lesser extent Hotel Du Vin as an example.

Rayner also fails to address the saturation of the market - here and London suffer from this in particular. I use both independents and chains but my use of the later is never at the cost of the former - it often depends on if I fancy a very quick cheap bite over a luxurious meal.

That begs the next question - what is the price ?

Seems value for money is insignificant

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Value does not equal cheap.

I’ve derived more value from a meal costing in excess of £100 per head than many costing £10 per head.

As long as I don’t feel ripped off I’m usually happy when it comes to “value”. I just need to be confident that, all things considered, price is justified.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Lunch in the Snowdrop in Lewes at the weekend.

Menu is a bit confused with some odds, annoying items (beetroot mash with liver ffs, there's normal mash elsewhere on the menu just use that) so wasn't overly confident when we got there but my GOD they can cook a burger. 13 quid with fries and salad means it's not the cheapest but you won't find much better, indeed I rate it above the Coggings and Co burger. The salad was a proper dressed effort too, not just some leaves thrown on the board (this was a bit annyoing but it was a covered wooden baord with some parchment type paper).

Sticky toffee pudding was passable, though nothing on the ofrering at Busby and Wilds which is the best dessert in the world.

The beer is great in there, good variety and it's kept very well.

Really good experience all in all. 8/10

I remember [MENTION=12211]The Spanish[/MENTION] described The Snowdrop as “peak Lewes”

It’s a lovely place imho.

 

[seagulls99]

Value does not equal cheap.

I’ve derived more value from a meal costing in excess of £100 per head than many costing £10 per head.

This is interesting as what constitutes value? I’ve been to many top restaurants around the world costing sometimes stupid amounts, yes the food was amazing but value for money? I don’t think any meal costing over £100 per head can be called value for money.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

That begs the next question - what is the price ?

Seems value for money is insignificant

I'm not sure there is an answer to that.

I've paid in excess of £200 for a meal of two at Ockenden Manor and thought it great value. I've paid £70 for a meal for two at The Witchez and thought it great value. I've paid £90 for a meal for five at Phoo and thought it was very poor value. I paid in excess of £100 for a meal at The Urchin and thought is poor value. Least mentioned about 64 Degrees the better !

So difficult to say - I expect attentive service ( but not the fake stuff you often get in chains ), a decent choice on the menu and, absolutely most important of all, an establishment that can correct mistakes without drama.

 

[Beach Hut]

I'm not sure there is an answer to that.

I've paid in excess of £200 for a meal of two at Ockenden Manor and thought it great value. I've paid £70 for a meal for two at The Witchez and thought it great value. I've paid £90 for a meal for five at Phoo and thought it was very poor value. I paid in excess of £100 for a meal at The Urchin and thought is poor value. Least mentioned about 64 Degrees the better !

So difficult to say - I expect attentive service ( but not the fake stuff you often get in chains ), a decent choice on the menu and, absolutely most important of all, an establishment that can correct mistakes without drama.

I wasn't expecting an answer as clearly it is a perception.

When I went to Riddle & Finns some may have perceived it as expensive but it was definitely exceptional.

Oh and Chambers added a service charge last night grrrrr

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

This is interesting as what constitutes value? I’ve been to many top restaurants around the world costing sometimes stupid amounts, yes the food was amazing but value for money? I don’t think any meal costing over £100 per head can be called value for money.

I disagree. When you’re talking high-end it’s not just what’s on your plate, and the surroundings you’re in, but the research and development which goes into the food. As I say, personally, I don’t go looking for “value” but more a feeling of price justification. And I’ve had meals over £100, some well over, which in my opinion are fully justified.

Turning the question to you, why can’t any meal over £100 be value for money?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'm not sure there is an answer to that.

I've paid in excess of £200 for a meal of two at Ockenden Manor and thought it great value. I've paid £70 for a meal for two at The Witchez and thought it great value. I've paid £90 for a meal for five at Phoo and thought it was very poor value. I paid in excess of £100 for a meal at The Urchin and thought is poor value. Least mentioned about 64 Degrees the better !

So difficult to say - I expect attentive service ( but not the fake stuff you often get in chains ), a decent choice on the menu and, absolutely most important of all, an establishment that can correct mistakes without drama.

The venue itself plays a part. Good point about mistakes, they will inevitably happen and my belief is you often see the true strength of any business in how they resolve issues.

 

[seagulls99]

I disagree. When you’re talking high-end it’s not just what’s on your plate, and the surroundings you’re in, but the research and development which goes into the food. As I say, personally, I don’t go looking for “value” but more a feeling of price justification. And I’ve had meals over £100, some well over, which in my opinion are fully justified.

Turning the question to you, why can’t any meal over £100 be value for money?

I agree and understand what you’re saying and I’ve been to many restaurants that charge vast amounts such as Noma or Dinner by Heston, but I how could I call it value for money when £10 could buy me a kebab and chips that would equally fill me up? I go to the high end restaurants for the experience, not the fact it is value for money.

 

[Bozza]

I agree with Rayner .... to a point. I'm fully prepared to pay the correct price for eating out BUT it still has to be value for money - not just the food itself but the service and experience. You can get some cracking deals from independents in the city - Semolina, Cin Cin, The Witchez to name a handful - yet you can also get the pretentious over-hyped, over priced stuff - 64 Degrees ( yes, controversial I know ) and to a lesser extent Hotel Du Vin as an example.

Witchez isn't one I'd heard of. Looked it up and added it to the list, so thanks!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I agree and understand what you’re saying and I’ve been to many restaurants that charge vast amounts such as Noma or Dinner by Heston, but I how could I call it value for money when £10 could buy me a kebab and chips that would equally fill me up? I go to the high end restaurants for the experience, not the fact it is value for money.

But I’d argue the experience is all part of the deal...otherwise, as you say, you could just eat a kebab.

Anyway, not worth further discussion other than to say I’m envious you went to Noma. I tried but never got in.....so it will never happen now.

 

[Goldstone1976]

But I’d argue the experience is all part of the deal...otherwise, as you say, you could just eat a kebab.

Anyway, not worth further discussion other than to say I’m envious you went to Noma. I tried but never got in.....so it will never happen now.

My partner took me to Noma for a big birthday. I have to say that, on balance, I was disappointed. Loads of technique, loads of presentation, loads of umami, but I didn't actually like the food. Impressed? Yep, hugely. Like? Not so much.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Witchez isn't one I'd heard of. Looked it up and added it to the list, so thanks!

They do the best starter I've ever tasted .... anywhere :

Pear – with goat’s cheese, rocket, dates, walnuts and balsamic honey glaze

 

[seagulls99]

My partner took me to Noma for a big birthday. I have to say that, on balance, I was disappointed. Loads of technique, loads of presentation, loads of umami, but I didn't actually like the food. Impressed? Yep, hugely. Like? Not so much.

Pretty much the same experience as me.