Religions of peace? A thread for sober discussion.

[looney]

I'm meeting an Imam at Uni on Wednesday as part of a module on diversity. If anyone has any burning questions they'd like me to forward him, I'd be happy to mediate. He's apparently given us the green light for the most awkward questions we can think of, so fire away.

How does he feel about Sept 11th creating 1 million christian missionarys?

Why is the retention rate for converts about 9 times higher for christians (87%) compared to muslims (9%), what do the converts to Islam see that makes about 90% revert in two years?

 

[looney]

I'm meeting an Imam at Uni on Wednesday as part of a module on diversity. If anyone has any burning questions they'd like me to forward him, I'd be happy to mediate. He's apparently given us the green light for the most awkward questions we can think of, so fire away.

How much of his educational litterature comes from Saudi Arabia and how much funding do the Wahibis provide?

 

[pastafarian]

I'm meeting an Imam at Uni on Wednesday as part of a module on diversity. If anyone has any burning questions they'd like me to forward him, I'd be happy to mediate. He's apparently given us the green light for the most awkward questions we can think of, so fire away.

Given that magic is a major sin in Islam and magicians are forbidden does he get all wobbly if he sees Paul Daniels on the telly?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

no it isnt. you wouldnt say the absence of belief in unicorns is a kind of belief. atheism it is not something to belong to, it is very simply the rejection of belief in deity(s). there is nothing more to it.

Absence of belief regarding the existence of unicorns is belief that unicorns do not exist. So yes, I would say that it is a kind of belief. Belief is surely an idea, maybe a fixed one, certainly one in which one has a strong feeling about. An atheist can believe very strongly that God does not exist. I call that faith.

 

[Soulman]

Why at the peaceful protest at the weekend by around 3,000 muslims to protest against the defamatory cartoons of Prophet Muhammad, was the Black Jihad flag clearly on display.

 

[pastafarian]

I'm meeting an Imam at Uni on Wednesday as part of a module on diversity. If anyone has any burning questions they'd like me to forward him, I'd be happy to mediate. He's apparently given us the green light for the most awkward questions we can think of, so fire away.

Anjem Choudary......Snog,Marry or avoid?

 

[cjd]

I'm meeting an Imam at Uni on Wednesday as part of a module on diversity. If anyone has any burning questions they'd like me to forward him, I'd be happy to mediate. He's apparently given us the green light for the most awkward questions we can think of, so fire away.

I,m not quite sure what the Prophet Mohammed looks like, so could he draw a portrait of him so you can post it on here.

Then we would be able to avoid offending Muslims just in case we accidentally drew a portrait that may be similar.

 

[Soulman]

Does he ever have a sneaky bacon sarnie with HP brown sauce.

 

[beorhthelm]

Absence of belief regarding the existence of unicorns is belief that unicorns do not exist. So yes, I would say that it is a kind of belief. Belief is surely an idea, maybe a fixed one, certainly one in which one has a strong feeling about. An atheist can believe very strongly that God does not exist. I call that faith.

well you would. as i say, im amazed how people of faith cannot conceive that the opposite of belief, non-belief, can exist. i see here how you've construed that not believing in unicorns is a belief itself, so i cant even appeal to logic. i simply do not believe in god(s) existing, strongly or otherwise. if asked i can venture there is no evidence, or mention the problem of evil which should settle the matter (it doesnt of course, despite being highlighted ~2300 years ago).

 

[symyjym]

Personally I love science and I'm married to a science teacher as well. Have you heard of doubting Thomas? He proved quite human in his responses as did other followers of Jesus. I don't really know about other religious texts apart from Judaism/Christianity. Doubt and loss of faith is very often mentioned in the bible as a whole. And I agree, people like Galileo are real heroes of mine. I am religious, but I believe religion is often harmful. Knowledge and discovery can be dangerous, but it should never be suppressed. There is also a striking resemblance in the general timeframe of the creation of the world in genesis. Albeit a naive description of the big bang, evolution, whatever, it is largely chronologically correct and shows a surprising grasp of science.

Yes it's interesting , but ancient man would have looked at all the ingredients that made the world. The sun has always been a powerful symbol of life and has been worshipped for millennia. So has water, grass and wheat, fish and animals. It would also be logical for old world theologians to make the assumption that God had to create everything first so that man could eat and survive.

I mean there would be no point in creating Adam and Eve before light and earth was created, and likewise God couldn't have created fish before water.

If we all jumped back 5-8,000 years and we questioned the logical order of mankind’s awakening, we would probably come out with a fairly good chronology timeline. However when going into detail of how this all happened they could only put it down to a creator for each step.

They wouldn’t have used a scientific process but they laid down a well thought theory for the age. I have no doubt about ancient man having their great thinkers, and that God would have made good sense as part of an equation. Today we use calculations, and replace the unknowns with symbols to achieve an answer and I see God as being no more than that.

Mankind has always wanted to know why we and everything is here, and what happens after death, so God has been the best answer to the unanswerable.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

I dont know where to begin with this woefully ignorant rubbish and misrepresentation of history.

There is no Duelism between Christianity and Islam. Firstly Christianity spread through its unique selling point that no other religions had, an immortal soul. This is why the majority of converts where by Missionaries. If the Frankish nights did butcher the saons as you claim it was an exception. I say claim as I have done a quick search and cant find any reference to it.

Islam found that most territory was already occupied by christians so was spread by violence, here they did take on a peaceful religion, erm, Christianty. Through forced conversions, massacres and oppression. still today a lot of Muslim countries are barely more than 50% muslim.

I mean seriously, do want a type of top trumps of religious massacres? You would soon run out of christian ones. In fact I could probably add a few to pad out your meagre list.

So could you provide a lik to the Paladins/Fraks butchering heathen Saxons and why?

There you go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxon_Wars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Verden

Read them and become less ignorant.
What do you mean by 'duelism' (sic)?

You're welcome.

 

[Wilko]

do you teach it in an unbiased way, out of interest?

I do but the kids know I am an atheist and often ask my points of view which I give to them. The teaching is not about preaching though.

 

[Wilko]

Out of interest how is a science vs religion class received in Kenya,im fairly sure worldwide its in the top 10 for religious populations

Indeed. It makes for fascinating discussions. In my classes I have a mix of Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Agnostics, Atheists and so on. I find that young curious minds are happy to listen to the evidence on all sides of the debate. Interestingly I think a lot of my students do not believe or follow a lot of the regulations of religion but do believe in God. Many also fully admit that they follow a religion because it is expected of them rather than a choice.

 

[Wilko]

I find religion fascinating in a historical and psychological context, and it always raises more questions than it will ever answer. The fact that “young woman” in Greek was translated to “virgin” shows how twisted the Bible is. Which in itself is interesting.

Born to a virgo is probably nearer to the truth too.

 

[fork me]

You are probably correct. For what it's worth, I personally wouldn't condone the publishing of those pictures, however I support the right of the publishers to do so. Someone, somewhere, will always find a way of being grossly offensive to someone else. Where do we draw the line?

Where to draw the line is always the difficult part, and there isn't an easy answer. That's the biggest problem. But screaming "free speech" without any clarification achieves nothing.

 

[fork me]

They're rather good lyrics if you believe in Christianity but not very good if you don't. It stinks of trying to scare people again. Sorry if that offends you but that the words of that song merely try to belittle those that don't believe.

Quite, I prefer this one, which makes genuine points rather than just trying to have a dig:

"Dear God"

, hope you got the letter, and...
I pray you can make it better down here.
I don't mean a big reduction in the price of beer
but all the people that you made in your image, see
them starving on their feet 'cause they don't get
enough to eat from God, I can't believe in you

Dear God, sorry to disturb you, but... I feel that I should be heard
loud and clear. We all need a big reduction in amount of tears
and all the people that you made in your image, see them fighting
in the street 'cause they can't make opinions meet about God,
I can't believe in you

Did you make disease, and the diamond blue? Did you make
mankind after we made you? And the devil too!

, don't know if you noticed, but... your name is on
a lot of quotes in this book, and us crazy humans wrote it, you
should take a look, and all the people that you made in your
image still believing that junk is true. Well I know it ain't, and
so do you, dear God, I can't believe in I don't believe in

I won't believe in heaven and hell. No saints, no sinners, no
devil as well. No pearly gates, no thorny crown. You're always
letting us humans down. The wars you bring, the babes you
drown. Those lost at sea and never found, and it's the same the
whole world 'round. The hurt I see helps to compound that
Father, Son and Holy Ghost is just somebody's unholy hoax,
and if you're up there you'd perceive that my heart's here upon
my sleeve. If there's one thing I don't believe in

it's you....

(Dear God, XTC)

 

[fork me]

Wow, thats quite something to say, your stance gives a disproportionate amount of credence to one religion ahead of others.

Does it? Did I mention any specific religion? You're jumping to a massive (and incorrect) assumption there.

They all deserve the same amount of challenge and criticism,

Where did I say they didn't? However, the Charlie Hebdo pictures werren't about "challenge and criticism", they were about being deliberately provocative to gain publicity, which is a totally different thing. It'd make no difference to me if it was Moses, Jesus, Buddha or Krishna they did it to.

it cannot be tolerated that we should be fearful of Islam in the way you suggest,

I didn't suggest that.

If you wish to debate with me, might I respectfully suggest that in future you respond to what I actually write, rather than just responding to something you made up.

 

[fork me]

...again Bashlsdir...why would you condone a far right group from another country, particularly one that has caused the world some serious issues in living history, marching on British streets?

Quite, on another forum I post on some muppet claimed his grandfather died in WW2 so these people could have freedom of speech.

Really? WW2 was about ALLOWING German Nazis to march in the streets in Britain?

 

[fork me]

I dont know where to begin with this woefully ignorant rubbish and misrepresentation of history.

There is no Duelism between Christianity and Islam. Firstly Christianity spread through its unique selling point that no other religions had, an immortal soul. This is why the majority of converts where by Missionaries. If the Frankish nights did butcher the saons as you claim it was an exception. I say claim as I have done a quick search and cant find any reference to it.

Islam found that most territory was already occupied by christians so was spread by violence, here they did take on a peaceful religion, erm, Christianty. Through forced conversions, massacres and oppression. still today a lot of Muslim countries are barely more than 50% muslim.

I mean seriously, do want a type of top trumps of religious massacres? You would soon run out of christian ones. In fact I could probably add a few to pad out your meagre list.

So could you provide a lik to the Paladins/Fraks butchering heathen Saxons and why?

That's nonsense, both religions were spread and enforced by a mixture of violence and conversions. Have you not heard of the Spanish Inquisition? Just a single example of which there are many more.

 

[fork me]

A very simple one. How does he justify his selection of peaceful verse over the more violent text? I'm not being confrontational. I would genuinely like to know, as it's sort of the point of this thread.

A good question, and one that can equally be asked of any religion.

Why are many Christians so anti gay (because it tells them to be in Leviticus) and yet not follow Kosher dietary requirements (that are in the same book)?