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Religions of peace? A thread for sober discussion.
- Thread starter jimhigham
- Start date
Firstly, cards on the table. I'm an atheist borne out of a catholic education. My take on religion is that it is literally a bunch of fairy tales invented by those who didn't have any power to take it from those that did. Survival of the fittest meant the strongest ruled until someone stronger came along. There was also a void that hadn't yet started to be filled by scientific discovery. What better way for the intelligent to wrestle power from the strong by suggesting that there is a being more powerful than them. Sun gods, Moon gods, gods of the seas etc etc etc
As I see it, there are two main facets to the main religions, that there is life after death and power of prayer. I believe in neither and I would suggest that they are merely ways to avoid the truth. When you're dead your dead, that's it; the end. If your spirit lives on it is only in the memories of those that survive you. There is no Heaven or Hell, no Paradise filled with numerous virgins and no Valhalla. It is, in my opinion, easier for people to accept their own mortality if they see it as a transitional thing as they move into the 'afterlife'. As for prayer, do people genuinely believe they are praying to a god or merely working out in their own head what their actions and/or decisions will be? If prayer works, why doesn't it work every time? Why does it work for some and not for others.
As for some of the references to the ten commandments, I get fed up with hearing how religion has hijacked a moral code as if all those that don't believe want to abandon that code. Don't kill, don't steal and don't lie. Do people really believe that nobody knew that those were wrong before some fairy tale about them being cast in stone up a mountain came to light?
I found it incredible that at even in the 20th Century people still believed in a supernatural power and here we are in the 21st century and it still goes on.
They're rather good lyrics if you believe in Christianity but not very good if you don't. It stinks of trying to scare people again. Sorry if that offends you but that the words of that song merely try to belittle those that don't believe.
As I see it, there are two main facets to the main religions, that there is life after death and power of prayer. I believe in neither and I would suggest that they are merely ways to avoid the truth. When you're dead your dead, that's it; the end. If your spirit lives on it is only in the memories of those that survive you. There is no Heaven or Hell, no Paradise filled with numerous virgins and no Valhalla. It is, in my opinion, easier for people to accept their own mortality if they see it as a transitional thing as they move into the 'afterlife'. As for prayer, do people genuinely believe they are praying to a god or merely working out in their own head what their actions and/or decisions will be? If prayer works, why doesn't it work every time? Why does it work for some and not for others.
As for some of the references to the ten commandments, I get fed up with hearing how religion has hijacked a moral code as if all those that don't believe want to abandon that code. Don't kill, don't steal and don't lie. Do people really believe that nobody knew that those were wrong before some fairy tale about them being cast in stone up a mountain came to light?
I found it incredible that at even in the 20th Century people still believed in a supernatural power and here we are in the 21st century and it still goes on.
They're rather good lyrics if you believe in Christianity but not very good if you don't. It stinks of trying to scare people again. Sorry if that offends you but that the words of that song merely try to belittle those that don't believe.
Wow, thats quite something to say, your stance gives a disproportionate amount of credence to one religion ahead of others.
They all deserve the same amount of challenge and criticism, it cannot be tolerated that we should be fearful of Islam in the way you suggest, it should be challenged to why such a westernised critique of anyone should be so disproportionately condemned and cause offense to many muslims residing in the western world, a cave in Afghanistan perhaps but not here.
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Deleted member 22389
Guest
If normal people with absolutely no connections with the far-right cannot go on the streets for a peaceful march, what other avenues do people have left.
daveinprague
New member
No, youre right, normal British people have no alternative other than to march alongside the German far right on British streets.
So this demo and others similar are frowned upon and will try to be stopped, yet the 1000 in the earlier post are ok.
daveinprague
New member
Really have no idea why a march organised, and attended by extremists of the German Far Right, on British streets is frowned upon. Its PC gone mad!
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Deleted member 22389
Guest
Thousands of people who attended these marches had no connection with the far-right whatsoever. They are normal hard working people worried about their country.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/01/us-germany-immigration-idUSKBN0KA1KZ20150101
daveinprague
New member
...again Bashlsdir...why would you condone a far right group from another country, particularly one that has caused the world some serious issues in living history, marching on British streets?
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Deleted member 22389
Guest
That's right.
Not sure about Charles having a word with the Saudi king, perhaps have a word with Cameron first and ask him to stop toadying around the people and subject over here.
Green Cross Code Man
Wunt be druv
I have to admire an atheist's faith. I personally find it amazing that you can't conceive the possibility that there may be a creator. Many scientists believe in the possibility of intelligent design. Others, such as Penrose claim that they have found the possible scientific justification for the existence of the conscious mind after death. I have faith, you do not and I totally respect your position. However I can't understand your conclusion. If one approaches the question of God, faith etc scientifically, it is only possible to come to a definite conclusion through possession of all the facts. We don't possess that knowledge.
daveinprague
New member
Do you believe that the German Far Right, should organize, and attend a march on British soil
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Deleted member 22389
Guest
I have been reading up on this group, it started out fine until one of the members was kicked out, which I didn't realise until now, so no I wouldn't want those type of people here.
But we possess considerably more facts now than we did when religions where in their infancy yet a lot of those of faith cling don't accept change or modernisation. Take the issue of female bishops, in 'biblical times' man led the family/tribe etc so it stands to reason that those writing to the stories will do so from their perspective, a bit like history is always written by the victor! In the 21st century, women should be equal but not in the eyes of many religions. Take homophobia, I think it is in Leviticus where he states man should not lie with a man, or words to that effect. How do we know that Leviticus wasn't a homophobe? Or maybe he was a homosexual but didn't come out of the closet. Based on that, for many centuries and even now, there are so called christians that denounce homosexuality.
Perhaps it would be easier if those that believed in life after death and the power of prayer just did that and didn't follow the rules and ceremonies laid down by other men in the name of different religions.
daveinprague
New member
Fair play to you.
- Thread starter
- #78
That is true but it does not follow that we must therefore consider the existence of a deity a 50/50 proposition. There are all sorts of standards of proof. From my time in government service alone I have worked applying three of them: beyond reasonable doubt (effectively 99.9% certain), a high degree of probability (unspecified but reasonably considered as 75+% certain) and the balance of probabilities (effectively 51+% certain).
We don't possess all the relevant information nor are we ever likely to do so more. However, we are in possession of considerably more information than we were in the Bronze Age and it is reasonable to reach conclusions based upon this. While I consider myself to be atheist you could reasonably label me at least a partial agnostic, as I would categorise myself as about 99% satisfied as to the non-existence of a creator. This is precisely due to that gap in information you refer to.
Good afternoon and may your god go with you. Thanks for keeping this all very civilised.
symyjym
Banned
By the very nature of being a scientist they are and have to be open minded about every theory until proved otherwise. Wormholes are just a theory but no one has ever seen one or knows what they look like, but science accepts that they might exist. People who are ridged in their belief cannot conceive the possibility of there being no God and it is based on pure faith rather than a proven fact.
Unfortunately God cannot be proved or disproved, but if it ever is, it is unlikely to be the same one that people have been praying to for the last 5,000 years.
It is not rational or open minded to believe in God 100% without question. Don’t forget that many great thinkers and scientists were put to death in the search for the truth. They are the true Martyrs and Saints of humanity. Would you really like to live in an ignorant world without science, where the world is flat and at the centre of everything?
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pastafarian
Well-known member
charged with behaving in a threatening or abusive manner by violating a security cordon,charged with shouting and failing to desist and causing fear and alarm,pleaded guilty to all counts,seems fair enough to me especially as the plank has form with a breach of the peace conviction for throwing paint at Clegg. Activists like that are just morons who dont add anything constructive to political debate.