[Albion] Refund information for season-ticket holders

[blue-shifted]

Agree with all of those saying that if you're struggling, take the refund.

I'm lucky that my or my Mrs job hasn't been affected so i'll keep my money in

 

[keaton]

Yes, I think the maths is right.. isn't it?

£20m Matchday revenue £5 x 200,000 x 20 = £20m

Do you not think our games would pick up 200,000 viewers?

That seems pretty high to me. The Everton game on BT got around 500-600k apparently, I think with lots of free games and all the other PPV games to choose from, added to people unable or unwilling to pay that would be a lot

 

[Hotchilidog]

Excellent stuff from the club. I took issue with Paul's tone in response to some initial emails on the announcement of the PPV (but let's face it who can blame him for being tetchy once in a while), however this response is just the sort of fan-friendly action that we have come to expect from our club. Well done PB, yet again.

That said I will not be using my balance to pay the £14.95 PPV fee for games on principle. This is not a dig at the club who had no input into the price point, but at the broadcasters who currently testing the waters for future price points. This is too high and way over what you can pay for NFL, MLB and NBA and I do not want to encourage them into thinking the can get away with it.

 

[Dick Swiveller]

I may have missed this whilst skimming through 3 times but I assume this means 1901 collections will now stop rather than continue until January as we were originally told? I am happy to leave the money if they aren't collecting again until next season.

 

[dazzer6666]

Yeah I'm guessing we will be picked up for 14 leaving 20 games for PPV.

Obviously no one knows what the market is going to be like for PPV, yet.
But I don't think an average of 200k is excessive.

Won’t be anywhere near 200k for our games. 20k would be impressive.........

I think PB said last night that the total revenue for ppv will be split between all PL clubs (so the most popular -Leeds, obviously- don’t get any more than -say - Burnley). Can’t remember exactly what he said but something along the lines of total ppv revenue being unlikely to cover more than the lost revenue from 1 - 1.5 games assuming the rest of our games this season are BCD.

 

[dazzer6666]

I may have missed this whilst skimming through 3 times but I assume this means 1901 collections will now stop rather than continue until January as we were originally told? I am happy to leave the money if they aren't collecting again until next season.

You should have an email (with another to follow within 14 days) - it says :


SEASON-TICKET AND 1901 CLUB EXAMPLES

Further detailed information will be sent to season-ticket holders and 1901 Club members in the next 14 days, but as way of an example here some illustrations.

Example 1: General Admission Paying DD
North Stand STH paying £545
25% deposit = £136.25
£225.63 paid in DDs + £140.75 refund due from last season’s matches = £366.38 total balance
£366.38 - £136.25 = £230.13 refund

Example 2: General Admission Lump Sum
North Stand STH paying £545
25% deposit = £136.25
£545 - £136.25 = £408.75 refund
(note lump sum payers had refund from last year’s games processed back to their credit/debit card)

Example 3: 1901 Club member paying DD
1901 Club gold members pay £1116+VAT
25% deposit = £279+VAT
£214+VAT paid in DDs + £260+VAT refund due from last season’s matches = £474+VAT total balance
£474+VAT - £279+VAT = £195+VAT refund

Example 4: 1901 Club member Lump Sum
1901 Club members have currently paid 50% of their 1901 Club membership fee.
50% of the amount paid is available for refund plus 5/21 of the 19/20 1901 Club membership fee.
For a 1901 Club gold member this is £279+VAT + £260+VAT = £539+VAT refund

Cut off for application:
Refund date:
4 November
18 November
15 November
1 December
15 December
1 January
15 January
1 February
16 February
1 March


Refund requests will be cut off after 16 February

 

[Uh_huh_him]

It's 8.6x our STH number. Could I ask how many non-Albion PPV games you think you'll watch at £15 a pop? Personally, I'll be watching none. All the 'big' games won't be PPV - it'll just be the less interesting games, such as Albion x2.

As I said, I will take the refund and pay £15 to watch the game instead.
Seems like a sensible arrangement.

The market is for all fans of both clubs wanting to watch the game, plus any bored football obsessives with more money than sense..
The number of season ticket holders we have is one of several factors in relation to potential viewers.

It will be interesting to see what the take up is, but the clubs voted 19/1 in favour of it.
if the expectation was for £100k a game I doubt it would have been so emphatic.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

That seems pretty high to me. The Everton game on BT got around 500-600k apparently, I think with lots of free games and all the other PPV games to choose from, added to people unable or unwilling to pay that would be a lot

Sorry I missed this. Is there an increased allocation of games to the networks too?

I had assumed we were back to <50% televised games.

 

[keaton]

Sorry I missed this. Is there an increased allocation of games to the networks too?

I had assumed we were back to <50% televised games.

Sorry free was completely the wrong word, I meant already included in sports subscription

 

[Dick Swiveller]

You should have an email (with another to follow within 14 days) - it says :


SEASON-TICKET AND 1901 CLUB EXAMPLES

Further detailed information will be sent to season-ticket holders and 1901 Club members in the next 14 days, but as way of an example here some illustrations.

Example 1: General Admission Paying DD
North Stand STH paying £545
25% deposit = £136.25
£225.63 paid in DDs + £140.75 refund due from last season’s matches = £366.38 total balance
£366.38 - £136.25 = £230.13 refund

Example 2: General Admission Lump Sum
North Stand STH paying £545
25% deposit = £136.25
£545 - £136.25 = £408.75 refund
(note lump sum payers had refund from last year’s games processed back to their credit/debit card)

Example 3: 1901 Club member paying DD
1901 Club gold members pay £1116+VAT
25% deposit = £279+VAT
£214+VAT paid in DDs + £260+VAT refund due from last season’s matches = £474+VAT total balance
£474+VAT - £279+VAT = £195+VAT refund

Example 4: 1901 Club member Lump Sum
1901 Club members have currently paid 50% of their 1901 Club membership fee.
50% of the amount paid is available for refund plus 5/21 of the 19/20 1901 Club membership fee.
For a 1901 Club gold member this is £279+VAT + £260+VAT = £539+VAT refund

Cut off for application:
Refund date:
4 November
18 November
15 November
1 December
15 December
1 January
15 January
1 February
16 February
1 March


Refund requests will be cut off after 16 February

No I get that. But unless I am being dense, nowhere does it mention they will stop DD collections immediately. It would seem to be implied and should be referenced in the personalised email but thought they would mention it here.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Won’t be anywhere near 200k for our games. 20k would be impressive.........

I think PB said last night that the total revenue for ppv will be split between all PL clubs (so the most popular -Leeds, obviously- don’t get any more than -say - Burnley). Can’t remember exactly what he said but something along the lines of total ppv revenue being unlikely to cover more than the lost revenue from 1 - 1.5 games assuming the rest of our games this season are BCD.

So it's equally shared?
1-1.5 games of lost revenue is about £1.25m
Therefore PPV is expected to raise £25m?

That's about 15k subscriptions per game expected.
I would have expected even modestly supported clubs like ourselves to generate at least that per game.

Clearly I'm in the minority though.
So I will bow out and accept I'm probably wrong.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Sorry free was completely the wrong word, I meant already included in sports subscription

Yes I know.

Have the networks been given more games per season as well?
I had assumed that PPV was instead of this.

 

[dazzer6666]

So it's equally shared?
1-1.5 games of lost revenue is about £1.25m
Therefore PPV is expected to raise £25m?

That's about 15k subscriptions per game expected.
I would have expected even modestly supported clubs like ourselves to generate at least that per game.

Clearly I'm in the minority though.
So I will bow out and accept I'm probably wrong.

I might have misheard or have poor recall, but sure that's what PB said last night - that PPV will only likely cover 1-1.5 games lost revenue (so yes, 1-1.25m)

Will be interested to see sub figures, but how many do you think would genuinely cough up 14.95 to watch us play, say, West Brom ? If NSC is an example, a decent % of our own STH aren't going to bother - so if they're not,who is ? Even if half our ST holders want to watch, on average I'd guess at least half of those will be watching at home with another STH, meaning subs from STHs might total say 5k - then perhaps add 5k to that for WBA fans. Who are the rest that will bother to pay (particularly when streams will be readily available)?

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I might have misheard or have poor recall, but sure that's what PB said last night - that PPV will only likely cover 1-1.5 games lost revenue (so yes, 1-1.25m)

Will be interested to see sub figures, but how many do you think would genuinely cough up 14.95 to watch us play, say, West Brom ? If NSC is an example, a decent % of our own STH aren't going to bother - so if they're not,who is ? Even if half our ST holders want to watch, on average I'd guess at least half of those will be watching at home with another STH, meaning subs from STHs might total say 5k - then perhaps add 5k to that for WBA fans. Who are the rest that will bother to pay (particularly when streams will be readily available)?

The number of people wanting to watch our games is significantly bigger than the number of season ticket holders/4.
There are a significant number of people on the waiting list as well as numerous others who are unable to attend matches for numerous reasons.
I for one would not have paid £15 if I hadn't been given a refund. Now that I have I feel that £15 is an acceptable price for the only option to watch my team live.

As the revenue is split between all clubs, every match round there is likely to be at least one heavily supported club who will not be televised.
Newcastle/Leeds/Everton even West Ham + the traditional big Six are likely to generate significant numbers, when not televised.

I think there are 5-6 games each week not televised.
The idea that this will generate a maximum of 75 - 90k viewing figures. seems unlikely to me.
Particularly as these games will be played when there is no other televised football to watch.

 

[dazzer6666]

The number of people wanting to watch our games is significantly bigger than the number of season ticket holders/4.
There are a significant number of people on the waiting list as well as numerous others who are unable to attend matches for numerous reasons.
I for one would not have paid £15 if I hadn't been given a refund. Now that I have I feel that £15 is an acceptable price for the only option to watch my team live.

As the revenue is split between all clubs, every match round there is likely to be at least one heavily supported club who will not be televised.
Newcastle/Leeds/Everton even West Ham + the traditional big Six are likely to generate significant numbers, when not televised.

I think there are 5-6 games each week not televised.
The idea that this will generate a maximum of 75 - 90k viewing figures. seems unlikely to me.
Particularly as these games will be played when there is no other televised football to watch.

We'll see - PB seemed very clear on the expected revenue (it was a detailed reply in response to a specific question). The thought of neutrals paying for multiple games at 14.95 a pop seems pretty unlikely to me - add that to our STHs and members (and others) watching in groups etc (or simply not bothering), it ain't going to be many IMO.

 

[seagullwedgee]

I’m sure I read that the waiting list for STs has now almost completely evaporated....

 

[Uh_huh_him]

We'll see - PB seemed very clear on the expected revenue (it was a detailed reply in response to a specific question). The thought of neutrals paying for multiple games at 14.95 a pop seems pretty unlikely to me - add that to our STHs and members (and others) watching in groups etc (or simply not bothering), it ain't going to be many IMO.

But you don't need neutrals to make the numbers bigger than 15k per match, is my argument.
How many STH + Armchair Liverpool/Utd/Arsenal/Spurs/Chelsea/Everton/Leeds fans push in when their match is one of the games not televised?
I'd argue that alone will bump the average up considerably.

It will be interesting to see, but I'm expecting some "shock" figures to find the experiment massively over delivered.
19/1 clubs voted for it. To see a return of £1.25m each?

I'm not buying that.

 

[dazzer6666]

But you don't need neutrals to make the numbers bigger than 15k per match, is my argument.
How many STH + Armchair Liverpool/Utd/Arsenal/Spurs/Chelsea/Everton/Leeds fans push in when their match is one of the games not televised?
I'd argue that alone will bump the average up considerably.

It will be interesting to see, but I'm expecting some "shock" figures to find the experiment massively over delivered.
19/1 clubs voted for it. To see a return of £1.25m each?

I'm not buying that.

They're PB's numbers not mine, and I'd imagine he'd have a reasonable view of what's expected.............. He said they agreed on the basis of a) it allows us to be able to see games we otherwise (legally) couldn't and b) it delivers a small amount of revenue to the club

As regards an average - for every Leeds/Liverpool game, there is a Burnley/West Brom - and with the former far more likely to be televised anyway, it's always the less attractive games that will be on PPV. Liverpool had 75% of their games televised.

 

[Barham's tash]

Yes, I think the maths is right.. isn't it?

£20m Matchday revenue £5 x 200,000 x 20 = £20m

Do you not think our games would pick up 200,000 viewers?

I think we’d be lucky to get 5,000 households buying at that price which if that was averaged over the season equates to £1.75m less costs so maybe £1-1.25m to the club?

The Newcastle game was watched on mainstream Sky Sports by 1m but my understanding is average viewing figures on the normal package games is roughly 500k.

Clearly our games v Top six will attract more and my assumption is money goes to the home club but still I’d expect v low purchase numbers.

 

[MattBackHome]

Sorry if I'm being dense - but would I have to request a refund 5 separate times, or is it that they're sending the emails out on batches?