[Politics] Rees Mogg / Andrew Bridgen Grenfell

[symyjym]

Terrific post this.

Rees-Mogg's comments were extremely ill-advised, on (at least) four fronts:

1. The 'blaming' of, and casual lack of empathy for, the deceased (and their families).

2. The conceit, that he would have acted in a 'better' way, in the panicked midst of an appalling situation, that his privilege would never, ever find him in.

3. The implied blaming of the Fire Service, whose personnel acted in nothing but good faith, and risked their lives that night.

4. The worst of all - this is a figure in authority, telling the public to NOT follow Fire Service advice in an emergency. Just think how dangerous that is.


The man is a shameless, self-interested shit, and anybody defending him is deeply, deeply naive - at best.

And the fact is that the cladding instructions had a limited 3 floor use only and Germany were strict on this advised standard. Ironically an efficient EU would have stopped our governments gross neglect in this building standard because the EU is primarily all about health and safety and what is regulated in one country should apply to all.

The country may want to leave the EU but to trust the our governments to run our country is just using our own clowns instead of EU clowns.

If Grenfell is an example of the competency of our government then our clowns are worse than the EU clowns.

Leaving the EU is like a clown running away from the circus.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

On a grey war canoe, yes. Shore-side, different kettle of fish. Some fire doors were changed (i read somewhere) to nice looking one's, compromising their effectiveness. Sad situation all round.

I agree the doors were changed but I doubt the Fire Service were informed of that, along with the flammable cladding.
The poor blokes were working blind.

 

[Hampden Park]

I agree the doors were changed but I doubt the Fire Service were informed of that, along with the flammable cladding.
The poor blokes were working blind.

i doubt they were told about either of those 2 things. poor sods.

 

[clapham_gull]

Meanwhile trouble down on the farm.....

Tory MP Andrew Bridgen is embroiled in bitter family row over £27m food empire after accusing his own brother of fraud... but they claim he lives rent free in firm's £1.5m house

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...roiled-bitter-family-row-27m-food-empire.html

 

[brakespear]

Really?

Isn't this just a re-run of Michael Portillo?

The major parties seem to need their attack dogs, who will just do whatever is necessary to force things through. Labour have the bullying Richard Burgon and the sinister Barry Gardiner. I don't have any time for either of them. Rees-Mogg is useful to the Conservative party, but why anyone directly outside this inner circle should find him even remotely useful, I don't understand. He is narrow minded, prejudiced and nakedly self-interested, or did I miss that passionate speech, when he pleaded forthe British public to make better use of the services of Independent Financial Advisers?

Rees-Mogg's comments just displayed a complete lack of interest in an area where government absolutely should be leading. There are still 200 tall buildings in this country with highly flammable cladding attached. These include hotels, student accommodation as well as residential properties. This should have been fixed by now. His common sense approach, is blithely ignorant of the facts and dismissive of those who frankly know so much more than him and vastly outrank him on intellect.

Do a quick search, on what kills more fire or smoke?
Ask why we have such slack regulations in this country and why we have only a fire bell and no comms in tall buildings for the fire service to COMMUNICATE with people trapped in a tall building. Maybe the first response, should have been a social media campaign, along with leaflets through all front doors.
Ask why if there is only one stairwell in such buildings, how can the fire service, fight a fire with hundreds of people making their way down the only exit route through smoke?
Ask what would have happened if the gas hadn't been switched off in time? An off duty engineer responded of his own accord, attended site and under cover of police riot shields got into the basement and turned off the gas.
Ask where the gas supply for the building ran - up the stair well and without any fire proofing fitted.

The whole public enquiry slow grind of evidence and years before anything tangible is learnt and implemented, is massively frustrating. You would think there has to be a better way. What I can tell you is arrogant and simplistic application of broad brush common sense is neither intelligent or helpful.

superb post

 

[darkwolf666]

Doesn't matter who it was.The reality is his words were twisted including from family and friends who I think likely took their cue from the establishment who criticised Rees Mogg.The reality is there are some subjects you can never speak about that would seem in anyway to be negative about that subject or where your words can be twisted around and Grenfell will always be in that mix.When you are talking about a subject that involves both mainly migrants and poor people than regardless of how innocent you intended your words to be it is best to say nothing.

I repeat what I said to another poster, have you actually heard or read what he said to Nick Ferrari. There is no ambiguity, he believed that the residents of Grenfell Tower should have disobeyed LFB (and government) advice to stay put, as "common sense" would have said leaving the tower was the right thing to do. Ergo, those that stayed in the tower had no common sense and in his mind were complicit in their own fate.

Show me where he said anything other than that...

I don't care what colour tie he wears, his comments were loathsome, and those of someone living in a world detached from many people's daily reality.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

I repeat what I said to another poster, have you actually heard or read what he said to Nick Ferrari. There is no ambiguity, he believed that the residents of Grenfell Tower should have disobeyed LFB (and government) advice to stay put, as "common sense" would have said leaving the tower was the right thing to do. Ergo, those that stayed in the tower had no common sense and in his mind were complicit in their own fate.

Show me where he said anything other than that...

I don't care what colour tie he wears, his comments were loathsome, and those of someone living in a world detached from many people's daily reality.

And those comments were backed up by MP Andrew Bridgen; his spiel was basically 'we should all know our place and defer to our betters'. Interestingly he seems to have disappeared from the airwaves since yesterday...it's almost as if the Conservatives were embarrassed by his (and Rees-Mogg's) anti-social world view...publically at least.

 

[Joey'The Bull'Gambino]

I repeat what I said to another poster, have you actually heard or read what he said to Nick Ferrari. There is no ambiguity, he believed that the residents of Grenfell Tower should have disobeyed LFB (and government) advice to stay put, as "common sense" would have said leaving the tower was the right thing to do. Ergo, those that stayed in the tower had no common sense and in his mind were complicit in their own fate.

Show me where he said anything other than that...

I don't care what colour tie he wears, his comments were loathsome, and those of someone living in a world detached from many people's daily reality.

Of course I heard his comments which is why I said what I said.

 

[clapham_gull]

This is my favourite Rees Mogg photo.

It's from one of his election leaflets and claims to be a picture of him talking to his local constituents in Somerset.

It's actually a staged photo using one of his employees from London.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Equally pointless but much warmer.

http://www.classwarparty.org.uk/ ?

You do read, put up links to, copy and paste articles from, some very strange websites.

Makes a change from Spiked (or whatever Living Marxism is called these days) and order-oddballs.com though.

 

[Hampster Gull]

This is my favourite Rees Mogg photo.

It's from one of his election leaflets and claims to be a picture of him talking to his local constituents in Somerset.

It's actually a staged photo using one of his employees from London.

N Y

 

[blue-shifted]

Fight or flight situation. I would have chanced leaving, but that is just me.

And some did, but you can’t say for sure you would, as there are a myriad of factors at play

A different part of your brain is working whilst you are calm than would be working in that situation
You might have young or elderly with you
You may or may not have a good level of fitness
You might be on the top floor or a much lower floor
You might be on one of the worst affected sides of the building

JRM was massively oversimplifying the situation and you should avoid doing so as well.

 

[blue-shifted]

I believe about JRM that he’s not actually that bothered about Brexit in itself, but as a means to an end.

That end being able to massively deregulate all parts of society, enabling his class to make far more money, but putting the classes of people he so clearly regards as inferior in more danger and less able to lift themselves out of poverty.

It’s an ideology he was born into, educated within and now works within.

His plan is going extremely well

 

[Hampden Park]

And some did, but you can’t say for sure you would, as there are a myriad of factors at play

A different part of your brain is working whilst you are calm than would be working in that situation
You might have young or elderly with you
You may or may not have a good level of fitness
You might be on the top floor or a much lower floor
You might be on one of the worst affected sides of the building

JRM was massively oversimplifying the situation and you should avoid doing so as well.

All fair points - Having done 19 years in the Royal Navy and been in and witnessed numerous fires (Albeit mostly on board ship) and quite a few fire-fighting training courses where you are in burning buildings in full fearnought suites with BA and having to do the fire walk with no gear, i feel that i would still stand by what i said. on the day though fight or flight still applies.

 

[blue-shifted]

All fair points - Having done 19 years in the Royal Navy and been in and witnessed numerous fires (Albeit mostly on board ship) and quite a few fire-fighting training courses where you are in burning buildings in full fearnought suites with BA and having to do the fire walk with no gear, i feel that i would still stand by what i said. on the day though fight or flight still applies.

Fair play to you mate.

It’s was an unimaginable decision for those poor people to have to take. I’m guessing none will have had your level of training or experience and I doubt any training situation can’t prepare you for the scrambled thoughts you would have in the middle of the night when you’ve got to decide on the best course to prevent you and your family from burning.

 

[Hampden Park]

Fair play to you mate.

It’s was an unimaginable decision for those poor people to have to take. I’m guessing none will have had your level of training or experience and I doubt any training situation can’t prepare you for the scrambled thoughts you would have in the middle of the night when you’ve got to decide on the best course to prevent you and your family from burning.

Again, fair points. I doubt many would have had the training i had received. I guess having been in conflict in the Falklands helped my scrambled thoughts become unscrambled in the middle of the night as the training kicked in almost spontaneously. not so sure nowadays as i am a lot older and wiser. i cannot argue nor do i want to argue with what you have typed. feel sorry for all rpt all involved in the tragedy of Grenfell.

 

[Beach Hut]

Current Government is best described by one lyric from the Simply Red track Turn It On, have a guess

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Current Government is best described by one lyric from the Simply Red track Turn It On, have a guess

Oooh. I love a music quiz.

I don't know the track in question, so I'll have a guess.

Did Ginger Mick sing "They're all a bunch of evil, self-serving shitbags"

 

[clapham_gull]

Current Government is best described by one lyric from the Simply Red track Turn It On, have a guess

My Old Man's a Banker ?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

You do read, put up links to, copy and paste articles from, some very strange websites.

Makes a change from Spiked (or whatever Living Marxism is called these days) and order-oddballs.com though.

Don't be ashamed of it MoS ... embrace the rage!

*

*Currently indistinguishable from Corbyn's Labour party