[Politics] Rees Mogg / Andrew Bridgen Grenfell

[nicko31]

As well as doctoring and faking a video for social media. Great start to the campaign, lies, deceit and more lies. Even Piers Morgan having a pop at them.

Careful Piers, you may want the owners of the Ritz to give you a job one day...

 

[Bold Seagull]

The bloke just said he would not be happy being told to stay in a burning building. The rest is fake outrage to something all of us would probably think

No you’re wrong. What he said was clear, that 72 people didn’t have the common sense to leave the building. This isn’t faux outrage, it’s complete lack of judgement, empathy, understanding and basic decency. Sorry, but you can try to rationalise it, and he could easily have said what a tragedy it was they didn’t leave, BUT he quite clearly said had they had common sense they would have left - men, women and children dying hideous deaths lacked common sense. Awful comment, rightly lambasted, and rightly forced to apologise.

 

[darkwolf666]

As well as doctoring and faking a video for social media. Great start to the campaign, lies, deceit and more lies. Even Piers Morgan having a pop at them.

The sad and simple fact is now does anyone actually believe ANY politicians, of whatever political persuasion.

I know people will say what about the Greens, well unfortunately they talk high ideals from a position of non power...

They are pretty much all as twisted, self serving, out of touch bunch as we could never hope to see.

 

[Beach Hut]

No you’re wrong. What he said was clear, that 72 people didn’t have the common sense to leave the building. This isn’t faux outrage, it’s complete lack of judgement, empathy, understanding and basic decency. Sorry, but you can try to rationalise it, and he could easily have said what a tragedy it was they didn’t leave, BUT he quite clearly said had they had common sense they would have left - men, women and children dying hideous deaths lacked common sense. Awful comment, rightly lambasted, and rightly forced to apologise.

Is exactly the right answer if we were on HIGNFY.

Rees-Mogg would be dismissed from the cabinet if the PM had any sense however as the PM probably actually agreed with the initial statement he will keep his job.

 

[CheeseRolls]

Wow, outrage is a modern disease.
[MENTION=3887]Uncle Spielberg[/MENTION] got it spot on.

Really?

Isn't this just a re-run of Michael Portillo?

The major parties seem to need their attack dogs, who will just do whatever is necessary to force things through. Labour have the bullying Richard Burgon and the sinister Barry Gardiner. I don't have any time for either of them. Rees-Mogg is useful to the Conservative party, but why anyone directly outside this inner circle should find him even remotely useful, I don't understand. He is narrow minded, prejudiced and nakedly self-interested, or did I miss that passionate speech, when he pleaded forthe British public to make better use of the services of Independent Financial Advisers?

Rees-Mogg's comments just displayed a complete lack of interest in an area where government absolutely should be leading. There are still 200 tall buildings in this country with highly flammable cladding attached. These include hotels, student accommodation as well as residential properties. This should have been fixed by now. His common sense approach, is blithely ignorant of the facts and dismissive of those who frankly know so much more than him and vastly outrank him on intellect.

Do a quick search, on what kills more fire or smoke?
Ask why we have such slack regulations in this country and why we have only a fire bell and no comms in tall buildings for the fire service to COMMUNICATE with people trapped in a tall building. Maybe the first response, should have been a social media campaign, along with leaflets through all front doors.
Ask why if there is only one stairwell in such buildings, how can the fire service, fight a fire with hundreds of people making their way down the only exit route through smoke?
Ask what would have happened if the gas hadn't been switched off in time? An off duty engineer responded of his own accord, attended site and under cover of police riot shields got into the basement and turned off the gas.
Ask where the gas supply for the building ran - up the stair well and without any fire proofing fitted.

The whole public enquiry slow grind of evidence and years before anything tangible is learnt and implemented, is massively frustrating. You would think there has to be a better way. What I can tell you is arrogant and simplistic application of broad brush common sense is neither intelligent or helpful.

 

[Joey'The Bull'Gambino]

Or families and friends who watched their families burn. mmmmmmmmmmmm.....

Difficult isn't it ?

Doesn't matter who it was.The reality is his words were twisted including from family and friends who I think likely took their cue from the establishment who criticised Rees Mogg.The reality is there are some subjects you can never speak about that would seem in anyway to be negative about that subject or where your words can be twisted around and Grenfell will always be in that mix.When you are talking about a subject that involves both mainly migrants and poor people than regardless of how innocent you intended your words to be it is best to say nothing.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

He’s what a thick person thinks a clever person looks like.

Quiet applause from a Sussex breakfast table. Nicely done.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Call me an old cynic, but I can't help but think that one of the reasons behind what he said, was in order to maintain the pretence that the disaster was somehow as a result of LFG's procedures for tackling high-rise buildings, rather than a result of the Government (Local and National) being incompetent at best and corrupt at worst, in implementing safety regulations. His attention to that message, in his mind at that moment, overriding anything else in the comment.The first part of the sentence about the LFG 'compounding' the problem was thought out in advance. Once he had delivered that message, he thought he had done what was necessary and waffled. Always dangerous for someone with his views of the world.

But of course, that would insinuate senior level briefings, and that wouldn't happen under a Government this honest would it

Or would he suggest that we all ignore what the police advise and just follow our common sense ?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Really?

Isn't this just a re-run of Michael Portillo?

The major parties seem to need their attack dogs, who will just do whatever is necessary to force things through. Labour have the bullying Richard Burgon and the sinister Barry Gardiner. I don't have any time for either of them. Rees-Mogg is useful to the Conservative party, but why anyone directly outside this inner circle should find him even remotely useful, I don't understand. He is narrow minded, prejudiced and nakedly self-interested, or did I miss that passionate speech, when he pleaded forthe British public to make better use of the services of Independent Financial Advisers?

Rees-Mogg's comments just displayed a complete lack of interest in an area where government absolutely should be leading. There are still 200 tall buildings in this country with highly flammable cladding attached. These include hotels, student accommodation as well as residential properties. This should have been fixed by now. His common sense approach, is blithely ignorant of the facts and dismissive of those who frankly know so much more than him and vastly outrank him on intellect.

Do a quick search, on what kills more fire or smoke?
Ask why we have such slack regulations in this country and why we have only a fire bell and no comms in tall buildings for the fire service to COMMUNICATE with people trapped in a tall building. Maybe the first response, should have been a social media campaign, along with leaflets through all front doors.
Ask why if there is only one stairwell in such buildings, how can the fire service, fight a fire with hundreds of people making their way down the only exit route through smoke?
Ask what would have happened if the gas hadn't been switched off in time? An off duty engineer responded of his own accord, attended site and under cover of police riot shields got into the basement and turned off the gas.
Ask where the gas supply for the building ran - up the stair well and without any fire proofing fitted.

The whole public enquiry slow grind of evidence and years before anything tangible is learnt and implemented, is massively frustrating. You would think there has to be a better way. What I can tell you is arrogant and simplistic application of broad brush common sense is neither intelligent or helpful.

Well said. There are death traps all over this country, but nothing is being done to make them safe, because the victims didn't use 'common sense'.
In the meantime, the people who risked their lives to save those who were trapped are getting a kicking from the Establishment.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Rees-Mogg's comments just displayed a complete lack of interest in an area where government absolutely should be leading. There are still 200 tall buildings in this country with highly flammable cladding attached. These include hotels, student accommodation as well as residential properties. This should have been fixed by now. His common sense approach, is blithely ignorant of the facts and dismissive of those who frankly know so much more than him and vastly outrank him on intellect.

Do a quick search, on what kills more fire or smoke?
Ask why we have such slack regulations in this country and why we have only a fire bell and no comms in tall buildings for the fire service to COMMUNICATE with people trapped in a tall building. Maybe the first response, should have been a social media campaign, along with leaflets through all front doors.
Ask why if there is only one stairwell in such buildings, how can the fire service, fight a fire with hundreds of people making their way down the only exit route through smoke?
Ask what would have happened if the gas hadn't been switched off in time? An off duty engineer responded of his own accord, attended site and under cover of police riot shields got into the basement and turned off the gas.
Ask where the gas supply for the building ran - up the stair well and without any fire proofing fitted.

The whole public enquiry slow grind of evidence and years before anything tangible is learnt and implemented, is massively frustrating. You would think there has to be a better way. What I can tell you is arrogant and simplistic application of broad brush common sense is neither intelligent or helpful.

Terrific post this.

Rees-Mogg's comments were extremely ill-advised, on (at least) four fronts:

1. The 'blaming' of, and casual lack of empathy for, the deceased (and their families).

2. The conceit, that he would have acted in a 'better' way, in the panicked midst of an appalling situation, that his privilege would never, ever find him in.

3. The implied blaming of the Fire Service, whose personnel acted in nothing but good faith, and risked their lives that night.

4. The worst of all - this is a figure in authority, telling the public to NOT follow Fire Service advice in an emergency. Just think how dangerous that is.


The man is a shameless, self-interested shit, and anybody defending him is deeply, deeply naive - at best.

 

[MattBackHome]

Terrific post this.

Rees-Mogg's comments were extremely ill-advised, on (at least) four fronts:

1. The 'blaming' of, and casual lack of empathy for, the deceased (and their families).

2. The conceit, that he would have acted in a 'better' way, in the panicked midst of an appalling situation, that his privilege would never, ever find him in.

3. The implied blaming of the Fire Service, whose personnel acted in nothing but good faith, and risked their lives that night.

4. The worst of all - this is a figure in authority, telling the public to NOT follow Fire Service advice in an emergency. Just think how dangerous that is.


The man is a shameless, self-interested shit, and anybody defending him is deeply, deeply naive - at best.

As is pretending that any criticism of this is simply because of his political stripe, or that this thread constitutes any sort of 'debate'.

I actually don't think the JRM is nearly the big bad bogeyman that he is made out to be in most cases - sometimes he comes across reasonably well - but he's bang out of order here.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Mark Francois makes Brigden look like Einstein! What is it with ERG members being so incredibly cerebrally challenged?

It's the port.

 

[Hampden Park]

I am not a great fan of Rees Mogg but he is getting a battering from his opponents when he just said he would not stay in a burning building. Clumsy yes but making out he is insulting people and he is more intelligent, nah. I don't think he mean't that or even implied it. I think most of us would feel uneasy being told to stay in a burning building

Fight or flight situation. I would have chanced leaving, but that is just me.

 

[mothy]

Stormzy v moggy- fight, fight, fight

 

[Mellotron]

I’ve never voted Tory, but there have been Tories over the years I have agreed with, and thought to be perfectly reasonable, even where I differ from their policies.

However - a big number of this current crop are genuinely toxic, and in the long run may take the Conservative Party down with them.

 

[darkwolf666]

I’ve never voted Tory, but there have been Tories over the years I have agreed with, and thought to be perfectly reasonable, even where I differ from their policies.

However - a big number of this current crop are genuinely toxic, and in the long run may take the Conservative Party down with them.

IDS and JRM spring to mind rather too easily.

I will never forget, or forgive, the picture of Iain Duncan Smith punching the air in delight when his welfare reforms (disability cuts) got through parliament. That was the face and gesture of someone with no humility or understanding of people lower down the scale than themselves - odious man!

JRM, with his crass comments has shown himself to comfortably fall into the same basket...

 

[BLOCK F]

It's the port.

I'm not sure about that, Harry.
I love a drop of decent port, but I really do believe that Brigden and Francois are dreadful and have no useful role to play in public life!
Am I cerebrally challenged?
Well, I hope not............unless I've drunk too much port! So, you may be correct after all!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Fight or flight situation. I would have chanced leaving, but that is just me.

Surely damage control says close all doors and seal off compartments?

 

[Hampden Park]

Surely damage control says close all doors and seal off compartments?

On a grey war canoe, yes. Shore-side, different kettle of fish. Some fire doors were changed (i read somewhere) to nice looking one's, compromising their effectiveness. Sad situation all round.

 

[rippleman]

However - a big number of this current crop are genuinely toxic, and in the long run may take the Conservative Party down with them.

Let's bloody hope so