[Politics] Rees Mogg / Andrew Bridgen Grenfell

[portlock seagull]

But shouldn't MPs be held to a higher standard? Surely they're the first people who deserved to to be judged harshly? I don't want any old Jack or Jill making decisions that directly affect us, I want people who are capable of clear thought, clear voice and even clearer action: isn't that something to shoot for?

I agree but this wasn’t a decision or an action, it was a clumsy comment. I’m tired of the life of Brian Jehovah, he said Jehovah type reactions to every wayward comment a politician or someone in a public office might make. All it does is serve to generate fake apologies and bland scripted statements. We all struggle to articulate what we mean at times.

 

[Beach Hut]

Great post and I wish I was as eloquent as you.

As a politician the man is a disgrace and straight out of the Trump play book. He posted on twitter a graphic from a tabloid newspaper regarding tariffs that he knew was incorrect.

The paper in question had to retract the article and print an apology. Rees Mogg left it there for months after being asked repeatedly to remove it, knowing damn well how provocative it was.

He hides behind a polite exterior but it terms of his political (and moral beliefs) is one of the most dangerous politicians of my lifetime. Boris politically is far far left of Rees Mogg, but the fact he is allowed anywhere near the front bench exposes the marriage of convenience that is the Tory party of 2019.

In a reciprocal arrangement Rees Mogg will gladly publicly support the leadership of Johnson so the ERG, Raab etc.. will hopefully get their "Thatcher was too left wing" way.

This is not the Tory Party any one has voted for in the past.

Sadly this is very correct, the Tory party is now a total disgrace full of egotistical right wing ****wits who only now have one agenda.

 

[clapham_gull]

We all struggle to articulate what we mean at times.

.. and yet Rees Mogg has made a career of very much the opposite. Rees Mogg does not speak without thinking I'm afraid.

He is only politically viable because he knows much of what he actually thinks isn't widely reported.

 

[Eeyore]

In his case, and anyone else in a similar position, if you don’t know what you’re talking about - shut the **** up! That way you can’t screw up your phraseology.

Looking at it, I'm trying to do my usual thing of standing back before reacting and asking myself about its context and intent. Trust me, when the objects of a compassionate view are right wing Tories I realise that I'm not as good as I thought at playing Ghandi.

 

[Saunders]

I agree but this wasn’t a decision or an action, it was a clumsy comment. I’m tired of the life of Brian Jehovah, he said Jehovah type reactions to every wayward comment a politician or someone in a public office might make. All it does is serve to generate fake apologies and bland scripted statements. We all struggle to articulate what we mean at times.

I manage to go day by day without offending families involved in a catastrophe by making a misinformed comment deflecting the blame towards the victims and fire brigade to save my own arse.

I admit I have times when I stuggle to articulate how much I disagree with (insert referees decision here).

 

[portlock seagull]

.. and yet Rees Mogg has made a career of very much the opposite. Rees Mogg does not speak without thinking I'm afraid.

He is only politically viable because he knows much of what he actually thinks isn't widely reported.

I think there’s a danger people get too conspiracy, too Machiavellian about every verbatim word JRM says at times. If we look at what he’s quoted as saying: “The more one's read over the weekend about the report and about the chances of people surviving, if you just ignore what you're told and leave you are so much safer. And I think if either of us were in a fire, whatever the fire brigade said, we would leave the burning building. It just seems the common sense thing to do. And it is such a tragedy that that didn't happen."

If you read that with a dislike of JRM, or even hatred, then I can see how incensed you might be. Equally, if you’re impartial and hold no opinion either way then I can also see it for what it is. A perfectly honest assessment, though in the context of a politician and such a sensitive matter it is perhaps clumsy or poorly expressed. But again, that’s all. IMO.

 

[clapham_gull]

Sadly this is very correct, the Tory party is now a total disgrace full of egotistical right wing ****wits who only now have one agenda.

And thrown traditional one-nation pragmatic Tories like you I respect under a bus.

This is not the Tory Party I or you know. The reality is that Thatcher would have kept these nut-jobs on a very very tight leash behind the scenes.

Boris is simply a modern day Archer with no politics who just wants to be PM. Alan Clarke had some extraordinary right wing beliefs .

Thatcher however, knew how to keep them under control. Blair was similar in his intelligence, using Prescott to keep the far left in their box.

 

[portlock seagull]

I manage to go day by day without offending families involved in a catastrophe by making a misinformed comment deflecting the blame towards the victims and fire brigade to save my own arse.

I admit I have times when I stuggle to articulate how much I disagree with (insert referees decision here).

Very easy to say so flippantly but in fairness, many others have been accused of the same by those who lost loved ones for reasonable, inoffensive comments. It’s just the raw emotion and a need to apportion blame that makes them so and all of us susceptible to accuse or be accused when faced with tragedy. It’s why grieving families aren’t appointed judges on the same enquiry.

 

[crookie]

I think there’s a danger people get too conspiracy, too Machiavellian about every verbatim word JRM says at times. If we look at what he’s quoted as saying: “The more one's read over the weekend about the report and about the chances of people surviving, if you just ignore what you're told and leave you are so much safer. And I think if either of us were in a fire, whatever the fire brigade said, we would leave the burning building. It just seems the common sense thing to do. And it is such a tragedy that that didn't happen."

If you read that with a dislike of JRM, or even hatred, then I can see how incensed you might be. Equally, if you’re impartial and hold no opinion either way then I can also see it for what it is. A perfectly honest assessment, though in the context of a politician and such a sensitive matter it is perhaps clumsy or poorly expressed. But again, that’s all. IMO.

Perhaps, but he's speaking with the benefit of hindsight of a tragedy that has had no comparable predecessor. Of course now, after Grenfell, people caught up in something similar might ignore the 'stay put' advice as they are well aware of the possible consequences. How does he think his comments are going to come across ? He is already viewed as an out if touch snob by many people, he's now taken that to another level. If it costs the Tories thousands of votes as a result it will be well deserved

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Eeyore]

Agree US, it’s way too easy to, VAR-like, pick apart what anyone in the public eye says often without context. And if they’re already a pantomime Villian, like JRM, then it matters not what they’ve said or how. Just that they’ve said something is enough for howls of disapproval and disproportionate calls for action from frankly, people with more than little bias or prejudice usually. 24/7 talk shows and social media has created a culture of outrage at practically everything imaginable that’s silenced reasonable debate. Instead it’s sack him or her for saying this, inferring that; not saying this, not inferring that - no wonder politicians no longer resign for more serious things, they must become deaf because of the constant ‘will you resign minister’ demands over, well, everything.

I agree with this. Outrage is the new opium of tribes. Nothing more enlivens our powerless sense of worth than hunting the latest bogeyman. We see it in NSC. Woe betide a drunken teenager who makes a crude comment about someone's dead father.

For a while I was sucked into the internet's mediaeval masses. It's hard to extract yourself. I think I'm making progress. I've 'snoozed' anyone in my FB page who makes too many political posts. They can't see how the echo chamber has deafened them in the search for egotistical highs. Give me 'likes'...

But...

I do feel that we have a feral elite now. This is supported by a media with a new sense of unaccountable purpose. It's like we live in an age that is post truth. In an age where there should be more facility to scrutinise somehow, despite underhand political action or activity being more apparent, it gets lost in the information overload.

 

[clapham_gull]

I think there’s a danger people get too conspiracy, too Machiavellian about every verbatim word JRM says at times. If we look at what he’s quoted as saying: “The more one's read over the weekend about the report and about the chances of people surviving, if you just ignore what you're told and leave you are so much safer. And I think if either of us were in a fire, whatever the fire brigade said, we would leave the burning building. It just seems the common sense thing to do. And it is such a tragedy that that didn't happen."

If you read that with a dislike of JRM, or even hatred, then I can see how incensed you might be. Equally, if you’re impartial and hold no opinion either way then I can also see it for what it is. A perfectly honest assessment, though in the context of a politician and such a sensitive matter it is perhaps clumsy or poorly expressed. But again, that’s all. IMO.

My major problem with JRM is the political influences he wears on his sleeve. One in his father and two is his favoured economist Patrick Minford.

Go read their writings before making a judgement on why I dislike him or my impartiality.

You are making the classic mistake in thinking I am reacting to a single event. Nope, it simply adds up to my overall judgement of this individual. He is one of the most dangerous politicians of my lifetime. His comments about Grenfell are simply another window into his mind - Ignore conventional advice and thinking and I will be okay, unfortunately others inevitably will be left behind,

This isn't Thatcherism, it's a modern economic Darwinism. He is a disgrace. An utter oddball "disaster capitalist" who has no place in public life.

Cummings and Boris will be thinking very hard tonight. It's Cummings who genuinely believes the party is full of people who either don't know or care about poor people.

Already rumoured to have been booted backside for election. He is toxic, especially as The Tories are rumoured to be after working class votes.

I sit back frankly amazed at others criticising people for being two "sensitive" when both major parties have resorted to extreme political positions. As much as I dislike Corbyn and the current Labour party at least in their defence they have returned to their class war "roots", irrespective of how relevant that is in 2019.

The Tories however - blimey. A populist big spending facebook obsessed EU hating fake news right wing nut-job new thing that we'll all be laughing as an accident to happen if they had gained some seats in Belgium.

They remind me a "modern" branching of Christianity (like the Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses) where Thatcher is still their "God", but are trying to convince everybody that she actually meant this and all other Christians are wrong.

 

[darkwolf666]

There's nothing ageist about the polls, which show older voters are shunning Corbyn, backing Brexit and will vote with Boris. This is in stark contrast to the young who are doing the precise opposite.

Nice back tracking, are you JRM in disguise?

That wasn’t the implication from your post.

 

[rocker959]

I am not a great fan of Rees Mogg but he is getting a battering from his opponents when he just said he would not stay in a burning building. Clumsy yes but making out he is insulting people and he is more intelligent, nah. I don't think he mean't that or even implied it. I think most of us would feel uneasy being told to stay in a burning building

Exactly

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

He’s what a thick person thinks a clever person looks like.

 

[Falmer Flutter ©]

The bloke just said he would not be happy being told to stay in a burning building. The rest is fake outrage to something all of us would probably think

Easy to say this when you know you will NEVER be in a position of actually living in a tower block, let alone one that is on fire. It's called empathy. **** him and all the Tory apologists.

 

[Chicken Run]

;9128501]Easy to say this when you know you will NEVER be in a position of actually living in a tower block, let alone one that is on fire. It's called empathy. **** him and all the Tory apologists.

IIRC US has at some point lived in a Tower Block.

 

[Falmer Flutter ©]

IIRC US has at some point lived in a Tower Block.

I was talking about the toff ****.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Wow, outrage is a modern disease.
[MENTION=3887]Uncle Spielberg[/MENTION] got it spot on.

 

[nicko31]

Here it is in all it's glory.

In what normal times hasn't the PM completely disowned this idiot tonight ?

[yt]ZAGMf0luGGQ[/yt]

These "gaffes" are beyond believe now.

One posh Tory said a despicable thing and another less posh Tory doubled-down on it. Silence from the PM, enough said....

 

[Bold Seagull]

As well as doctoring and faking a video for social media. Great start to the campaign, lies, deceit and more lies. Even Piers Morgan having a pop at them.