[Albion] Record attendance for what's likely to be the least attended league game this season.

[nickbrighton]

So, we all know that the official figures given are for tickets sold, not bums on seats. This is done theroughout the Prem (and EFL as far as I know), and I believe thats the "official" way of doing it

When though did it become the practice to give out tickets sold rather than bums on seats?

 

[Sirnormangall]

There didn’t seem to be as much segregation of fans in the south stand as there usually is. The extra seats sold might have boosted the attendance / tickets sold a bit.

 

[Weststander]

So, we all know that the official figures given are for tickets sold, not bums on seats. This is done theroughout the Prem (and EFL as far as I know), and I believe thats the "official" way of doing it

When though did it become the practice to give out tickets sold rather than bums on seats?

I knew it was originally an Arsenal thing and this is confirmed online in many articles, turns out it was a Manure thing too early on. Imported from the US where less popular sports franchises have always exaggerated numbers attending.

Reasons - giving the impression of a bigger club for sponsorship revenue. The Glazer’s also started it when boycotts dented real crowds at OT.

Eventually every other club has joined in.

The Albion refuse FOI requests for real attendances, citing commercial sensitivity as the reason.

 

[AZ Gull]

So, we all know that the official figures given are for tickets sold, not bums on seats. This is done theroughout the Prem (and EFL as far as I know), and I believe thats the "official" way of doing it

When though did it become the practice to give out tickets sold rather than bums on seats?

I posted about exactly this on a thread just a week or two ago.

I don't believe a single club ever came out and said "Right, from now on the figure we announce will be the number of tickets sold rather than the number of people through the turnstiles."

There is simply no way of knowing for sure, for any club, which isn't particularly helpful for those of us of a record-keeping persuasion.

 

[Easy 10]

When though did it become the practice to give out tickets sold rather than bums on seats?

Quite simply - it was when POTG all but disappeared.

Back in the day the majority could rock up to a game, pay their £4.50 at the turnstile, and mince off onto the terraces. STH's were probably in the minority of crowds then, certainly on terraces, as it was just standard to just turn up and get in. The (largely pre-paid) bums on seats were much outweighed by the terrace POTG attendance.

Since stadiums (at PL and Championship level) are now all-seater, these days just about everyone has to buy their ticket well in advance of the game. STH's now account for about 2/3+ of the overall attendance whether they turn up or not. That was never the case when most people were just POTG.

 

[heathgate]

So, we all know that the official figures given are for tickets sold, not bums on seats. This is done theroughout the Prem (and EFL as far as I know), and I believe thats the "official" way of doing it

When though did it become the practice to give out tickets sold rather than bums on seats?

Surely it's a no brainer that the tickets sold is the correct number of those demonstrating tangible intention to attend by passing a fee to the club ahead of the fixture?.... if for some reason they can't attend, get delayed, are ill, grandmother snuffs it.... etc etc,... then as far as the club, Prem League, FA and inland revenue are concerned, the correct number of customers and presumably correct income figures will largely correlate.

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[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

Surely it's a no brainer that the tickets sold is the correct number of those demonstrating tangible intention to attend by passing a fee to the club ahead of the fixture?.... if for some reason they can't attend, get delayed, are ill, grandmother snuffs it.... etc etc,... then as far as the club, Prem League, FA and inland revenue are concerned, the correct number of customers and presumably correct income figures will largely correlate.

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What if there's 800 waiting to go on the ticket exchange in the event of a sellout?

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[heathgate]

What if there's 800 waiting to go on the ticket exchange in the event of a sellout?

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Not sure what you are driving at... is that relevant to this 'pretendence' conversation?

It is almost certainly that tickets sold is a PL or FA requirement.

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[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

Not sure what you are driving at... is that relevant to this 'pretendence' conversation?

It is almost certainly that tickets sold is a PL or FA requirement.

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You said that purchasing a ticket showed intention to attend.

But if you've purchased it and subsequently listed it for resale, then what?

It isn't a league requirement, it's a club decision. Barber has been asked about this many times over the years since we started doing it, including at the fans forum a couple of weeks ago.



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[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Let me guess. This is about the 'pretendance' right?

 

[drew]

You said that purchasing a ticket showed intention to attend.

But if you've purchased it and subsequently listed it for resale, then what?

It isn't a league requirement, it's a club decision. Barber has been asked about this many times over the years since we started doing it, including at the fans forum a couple of weeks ago.



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And people will go on asking the question ad infinitum. We're fourth in the league and people seem more concerned with about a policy that there is no reason the club has to change. Some cite a reference to accurate figures. Well I'm pretty sure the figures from POTG days weren't accurate with clubs probably under reporting actual gates either to reduce taxation or just the fact that the odd turnstile operator would turn a blind eye to kids going through!! It wasn't accurate then and it wasn't accurate now, nothings changed.

 

[A1X]

Well I personally won't be happy until the club have installed sensors in every seat so they can tell whether or not it is occupied, with a rolling number visible prominently so every supporter can make sure they know exactly what the number of people watching is at all times and not sneaking off to the loo / bar / train when they shouldn't be.

 

[Weststander]

And people will go on asking the question ad infinitum. We're fourth in the league and people seem more concerned with about a policy that there is no reason the club has to change. Some cite a reference to accurate figures. Well I'm pretty sure the figures from POTG days weren't accurate with clubs probably under reporting actual gates either to reduce taxation or just the fact that the odd turnstile operator would turn a blind eye to kids going through!! It wasn't accurate then and it wasn't accurate now, nothings changed.

I thought exactly the same.

 

[Wardy's twin]

I thought exactly the same.

True but 30k then probably meant 31-32k

30k now = ? (probably 24k)


The only thing that matters is whether there is enough income.

 

[drew]

True but 30k then probably meant 31-32k

30k now = ? (probably 24k)


The only thing that matters is whether there is enough income.

People aren't having a hissy fit about the figures because they think the club are missing out financially, it's just they've got a bee in the bonnet about it and won't let it go.

 

[chaileyjem]

People aren't having a hissy fit about the figures because they think the club are missing out financially, it's just they've got a bee in the bonnet about it and won't let it go.

If the biggest scandal at the club is its decade long habit of announcing that the club have sold x number of tickets when ....checks notes...they have sold x number of tickets then really so what.

However these things are nearly always a proxy for other grievances - some within the clubs control (the ticket exchange, the sharing scheme, vaccine spot checks ), some outside ( Covid, travel, doing things other than football instead) and when it was an issue under Hyppia or the 2nd season under Hughton (losing a lot of matches/rubbish football). Thankfully at least we don't have to worry about the latter at the moment.

 

[severnside gull]

People aren't having a hissy fit about the figures because they think the club are missing out financially, it's just they've got a bee in the bonnet about it and won't let it go.

Indeed
If 30k tickets are sold that’s what is quite rightly reported. Bums on seats is a fans’interest

 

[disgruntled h blocker]

I would imagine there might be a shock if the official Ticket Exchange is opened up for a game as it would show the depth to the problem - the number of people who have put their tickets on there as they cannot or will not attend a match.

 

[Weststander]

True but 30k then probably meant 31-32k

30k now = ? (probably 24k)


The only thing that matters is whether there is enough income.

Normally, I'd like certaintly and I like numbers/stats. I used to be very interested in attendance numbers in sport.

Bamber & Pavey wildly understated Goldstone attendances in our first heyday. I knew someone itk at that time, who said a slush fund of cash was used to entice players to Sussex ... even then this was relatively speaking a bloody expensive part of the UK to live.

I've just accepted the new normal, started on these shores by Arsenal & Manure.

One of those ... only be bothered in life by what you can control.

Knowing that there really 24,663 or 26,705 at The Amex last Sunday, wouldn't excite me.

 

[Weststander]

If the biggest scandal at the club is its decade long habit of announcing that the club have sold x number of tickets when ....checks notes...they have sold x number of tickets then really so what.

However these things are nearly always a proxy for other grievances - some within the clubs control (the ticket exchange, the sharing scheme, vaccine spot checks ), some outside ( Covid, travel, doing things other than football instead) and when it was an issue under Hyppia or the 2nd season under Hughton (losing a lot of matches/rubbish football). Thankfully at least we don't have to worry about the latter at the moment.