Reccession ..... Calm Down & Carry On

[somerset]

Because of a worldwide economic crisis.

Is it Nescafe?

No, we have the largest national debt outside of the US because of the careless and reckless economic strategy applied by the current opposition in attempting to tackle the effects of the worldwide economic crisis. (Not because of it)

 

[Dirk Gently]

No, we have the largest national debt outside of the US because of the careless and reckless economic strategy applied by the current opposition in attempting to tackle the effects of the worldwide economic crisis. (Not because of it)

It's a large debt because we have a large economy. But if you look at debt as a proportion of GDP we're in much better shape than many other countries.

But expressing statistics in a meaningful way does tend to spoil the soundbite, doesn't it.....

 

[Don Quixote]

The people got what they asked for when they went to the ballot box, they can't blame the government.

 

[sten_super]

No it has been a bit of shock to find out that putting a million people out of work thus taking their spending power and tax revenue out of the economy, whilst placing more strain on public finances due to an increased welfare bill wasnt good for the country. You would have thought that having seen austerity measures fail to work all across Europe, that even a palace fan would be able to realise that they arent working and wont work here, and they probably could.

Just a shame that the public school twats who spent their teens wanting to be a prime minister and chancellor have dug themselves into a hole and are too thick to get themselves out of it.

The issue, it seems to me, is that continuing to spend is simply kicking the problem down the road. Fundamentally, a number of (particularly western) economies have financed economic growth through borrowing. There was always likely to be a retraction when that borrowing was removed - as you say, it wasn't really a surprise to anyone (and don't believe Osbourne when he talks about the private sector being crowded out by the public sector - that was always nonsense). The US have simply pushed their problem further into the future by continuing to grow thanks to borrowing.

So far, we have seen approximately 12% of the government cuts to public expenditure, with the aim of (more or less) making the budget balance by the end of the parliament. There are clearly going to be some further hard times ahead.

On a slight tangent - I have always found the idea of measuring debt relative to GDP as slightly odd. If (as I mentioned above) economic growth can be paid for through borrowing, measuring that borrowing against the level of economic activity is going to give you a skewed figure (on the low side). Similarly, measuring the level of spending in a single year (the budget deficit) against a level of economic activity that is not sustainable without borrowing is another mismeasurement. It seems to me to make much more sense to measure government borrowing on a per capita basis, as it is the population that are ultimately going to have to pay (either directly, through taxation, or indirectly, through reduced public services) for any borrowing that takes place. Do that (and perhaps compare to income per capita if you want to get a feeling for the relative size), and the truly scary nature of the debt becomes apparent.

 

[narly101]

no doubt Robert "fuckwit" Peston will bring even more doom and gloom to the nation with an inciteful piece of journalism he wrote on the back of a fag packet

 

[Dirk Gently]

The people got what they asked for when they went to the ballot box, they can't blame the government.

I'm not really sure that those who voted Lib Dem did get what they asked for.

 

[Tubby Mondays]

No, we have the largest national debt outside of the US because of the careless and reckless economic strategy applied by the current opposition in attempting to tackle the effects of the worldwide economic crisis. (Not because of it)

None of which measures the current government disagreed with. Nor did they come up with an alternative plan.

 

[Tubby Mondays]

I'm not really sure that those who voted Lib did get what they asked for.

True; theyve been well and truly shafted.

 

[Don Quixote]

I'm not really sure that those who voted Lib Dem did get what they asked for.

What are you talking about? They certainly did.

 

[mikeyjh]

I almost, very nearly, feel sorry for Cameron right now, I have never known so much crap to be hitting a government fan at one time. Gone is the calm facade, complacent facade.....

 

[somerset]

It's a large debt because we have a large economy. But if you look at debt as a proportion of GDP we're in much better shape than many other countries.

But expressing statistics in a meaningful way does tend to spoil the soundbite, doesn't it.....

Again no, the economy is shrinking, and has been for some years to a greater or lesser extent depending on which quarter/month you look at, so maintaining let alone reducing that legacy debt is proving a tough ask, borrowing more at the levels seen with the previous govt is not sustainable, we would end up like Greece or Spain.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

I'll open a book on this thread, at what point does it become centred on sympathy for one poster ?

Oh ffs give it a rest will you.

 

[Dirk Gently]

What are you talking about? They certainly did.

Certainly some Lib Dem voters might have thought it through and come out with the end-result of a coalition with the Tories, resulting in massive cuts to public services, tax cuts for the wealthy and increases to tuition fees etc (all actions contrary to Lib Dem manifesto commitments) - but I suspect such prescient voters are in the minority.

 

[Dirk Gently]

Again no, the economy is shrinking, and has been for some years to a greater or lesser extent depending on which quarter/month you look at, so maintaining let alone reducing that legacy debt is proving a tough ask, borrowing more at the levels seen with the previous govt is not sustainable, we would end up like Greece or Spain.

Not arguing with that. I was just making the point that comparing the absolute sizes of nations' debts without taking into consideration the relative sizes of their economies concerned is just shallow and fatuous.

 

[Tubby Mondays]

I almost, very nearly, feel sorry for Cameron right now, I have never known so much crap to be hitting a government fan at one time. Gone is the calm facade, complacent facade.....

But its not a coicidence is it? They are clearly incompetant. The budget was a shambles (and drawn up by the 'strategist' that masterminded their 'victory' over the deeply unpopular Brown/Labour government), they were clueless over the fuel tankers situation, they were didnt know what day of the week it was over the deportation of Quatada, they are on the verge of knackering the NHS and they are in the shite over what to do about the House of Lords. And thats just in the past couple of weeks!

 

[JCL666]

When's the first home game of next season?

 

[mikeyjh]

But its not a coicidence is it? They are clearly incompetant. The budget was a shambles (and drawn up by the 'strategist' that masterminded their 'victory' over the deeply unpopular Brown/Labour government), they were clueless over the fuel tankers situation, they were didnt know what day of the week it was over the deportation of Quatada, they are on the verge of knackering the NHS and they are in the shite over what to do about the House of Lords. And thats just in the past couple of weeks!

No - It's entirely their own doing! All I mean is, well, you can't really blame him for the Nadine Dorries comments. Obviously he is an arrogant, complacent posh boy, who shows no remorse but that's not really his fault is it? You can't blame for getting rid of the anti BSKYB bid Cable and parachuting in Jeremy Hunt to smooth the deal, can you? Continuing to back his crony the shamobolic home secretary surely can't held against him?

 

[ALBION28]

Shame history is barely taught these days or we would all realise we have been here before and will be here again. Put simply one group chase growth and will borrow i.e mortgage the other group will cut to get cheap labour and enhance wealth at the top. Both are probably wrong but its the way it is in this land. Solution in the past...inflation. this enables debt clearance and growth to occur at once. Stability returns for a while and then we start again. Now the only way I have seen to stop the cycle is to introduce real democracy i.e proportional representation. This stops the extremism of left and right. Consensus politics takes over and you can end up with great NHS high employment, good education, wealth , security and no national debt e,g Sweden Well just saying!

 

[mikeyjh]

Consensus politics takes over and you can end up with great NHS high employment, good education, wealth , security and no national debt e,g Sweden Well just saying!

It's a great story, but the unemployment rate in Sweden is very similar to here, and they have (albeit much lower than here) sizeable national debt.

 

[Tubby Mondays]

No - It's entirely their own doing! All I mean is, well, you can't really blame him for the Nadine Dorries comments. Obviously he is an arrogant, complacent posh boy, who shows no remorse but that's not really his fault is it? You can't blame for getting rid of the anti BSKYB bid Cable and parachuting in Jeremy Hunt to smooth the deal, can you? Continuing to back his crony the shamobolic home secretary surely can't held against him?

It could be argued that you can.

He humiliated Nadine Dorries in the House of Commons with his 'I know youre frustrated...' effort, which he then laughed at with all the other braying school boys. He is Prime Minister! He cant be arrogant (at least not until hes acheived something), or complacent.

The Hunt thing possibly not. He wasnt to know he was bent when he gave him the job. Hunt should have said to him 'I know something about this, perhaps im not the best man for the job'. What he probably thought was 'Sod it Ill take it anyway, Cameron clueless he wont ever find out'.

Continuing to back his crony shambolic home secretary is his own fault. She wasted no time in hanging out the Border Agency boss to dry when he cocked up. Shes messed up badly and publically on Quatada. His continuing endorsement of her sends the message 'We are home to Mrs and Mrs Cock up. And theyre very welcome'.