RBoS to report losses of £5bn and investment banking bonuses of £1.3bn

[Billy the Fish]

I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of what could have happened had the government just allowed the banks to collapse. But in simple terms, if millions of people went to the cashpoint machines to draw some of their money out, and suddenly found that they couldn't, then I don't think its an exagerration to say there would have been a complete meltdown and rioting in the streets.

True, but in that case the government could just guarantee everyone's money and it probably would cost that much, although I'm starting to see where this is going.

I suppose the next thing is business going bust and people losing jobs and houses. That said, putting money in at the bottom and keeping people in food and homes would still be way cheaper than what they've spent bailing out the banks.

It probably would be pretty shit for a few decades but I seriously rekon the world needs to take a few steps back in order to go forwards. One day it will happen naturally, maybe not the next banking collapse, or the one after but sooner or later something will have to give if they never change anything and just keep pumping money into the same system.

*Edit* P.S I'm not trying to pretend I know what I'm talking about either, I'm just having a Roy Walker Catchphrase moment - "say what you see"

 

[beorhthelm]

True, but in that case the government could just guarantee everyone's money

thats what they are doing. who's money is it in the banks? if a bank goes bust, all the creditors get to pick over the bones, the people have little to nothing left. what you have to bare in mind is that theres more money in the economy than there is actual cash, banks lend to each other, do a deal lend it to someone else, they invest, do a deal... its not just peoples money either, with no money for companies to invest or pay the wages, theres no work.

proping up the banks is the only thing they could do. if there is a problem with the bail outs its that they have done f*** all to prevent it happening again. no new regulations, no re-introductions of the ones that led here. leave it to the markets... oh wait.

 

[Peteinblack]

Why do these bankers get bonuses anyway?

In any other job or profession, if you do your job well, you might be lucky enough to be kept on, or possibly promoted; if you do it badly, you'll be sent for retraining or be dismissed. You don't get a bonus simply for successfully doing what you are employed to do in the first place,

A bus or train driver doesn't get a bonus when successfully driving passengers to their destination. A nurse doesn't get a bonus for tending to a patient. Refuse collectors don't get a bonus every time they collect your household rubbish.

The rest of us are going to be told constantly in the next few years to accept pay restraint, tighten our belts, and be grateful (if) we've still got jobs. Why can't this advice be given to bankers too?

They are utterly shameless; morally, as well as financially, bankrupt.

As to their trying to hold us to ransom by saying 'curb our excesses, and we'll emigrate', then let them **** off - I'd happily go to the airport to wave them off.

The trade unions used to 'hold the country to ransom' and so were firmly dealt with by Thatcher to put a stop to it.

When is someone going to do the same with the bankers and the power that 'the City' now wields over us? Brown and Darling won't, but neither will Cameron and Osborne.

 

[Common as Mook]

Why do these bankers get bonuses anyway?

In any other job or profession, if you do your job well, you might be lucky enough to be kept on, or possibly promoted; if you do it badly, you'll be sent for retraining or be dismissed. You don't get a bonus simply for successfully doing what you are employed to do in the first place,

A bus or train driver doesn't get a bonus when successfully driving passengers to their destination. A nurse doesn't get a bonus for tending to a patient. Refuse collectors don't get a bonus every time they collect your household rubbish.

The rest of us are going to be told constantly in the next few years to accept pay restraint, tighten our belts, and be grateful (if) we've still got jobs. Why can't this advice be given to bankers too?

They are utterly shameless; morally, as well as financially, bankrupt.

As to their trying to hold us to ransom by saying 'curb our excesses, and we'll emigrate', then let them **** off - I'd happily go to the airport to wave them off.

The trade unions used to 'hold the country to ransom' and so were firmly dealt with by Thatcher to put a stop to it.

When is someone going to do the same with the bankers and the power that 'the City' now wields over us? Brown and Darling won't, but neither will Cameron and Osborne.

In it's most simplistic form, it's commission for making money for the company. Just like any other salesman would at any other company.

 

[Monsieur Le Plonk]

if there is a problem with the bail outs its that they have done f*** all to prevent it happening again. no new regulations, no re-introductions of the ones that led here. leave it to the markets... oh wait.

If they regulate it all now then there ain't a chance in hell of us ever reducing the debt. It's a calculated gamble that simply must pay off.

 

[beorhthelm]

Why do these bankers get bonuses anyway?

In any other job or profession, if you do your job well, you might be lucky enough to be kept on, or possibly promoted; if you do it badly, you'll be sent for retraining or be dismissed. You don't get a bonus simply for successfully doing what you are employed to do in the first place,

A bus or train driver doesn't get a bonus when successfully driving passengers to their destination. A nurse doesn't get a bonus for tending to a patient. Refuse collectors don't get a bonus every time they collect your household rubbish.

you might need to get a better view of the world, because in nearly ALL other professions you do get bonuses, often for just keeping up. Bus drivers probably get bonuses for sticking to the time table, bin men for doing the round on time without littering the streets, nurses for hiting targets of how many patients seen. i have no idea if these do actually apply but they are the sort of thing that do occur these days, especially in the target driven culture of the public sector, with the target usualy set to ensure its met for political reasons.

in the private sector its often called comission, you hit your sales target then you get 10, 20, maybe 100% or more of your basic. what do you think brokers do if not essentialy selling to earn commission?

and heres another light on the subject: RBS made a loss so wont pay any taxes, while those getting bonuses will be paying 40%. so at least some money have fed back to the exchequer.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

What pisses me of..I mean REALLY REALLY pisses me of is the way that Banking representatives are still given airtime.... like they actually know f***ing anything at all.

There was an item on the news the other day about the massive shortfall between what the banks had committed to lend to small and medium businesses as a proviso for the bailout from HMG (us) and what they are actually lending (in effect they are keeping the difference).

Anyway we saw vince Cable and various small business owners warning that the failure of the banks to keep to their word will mean that these vital businesses are starved of credit meaning they are folding every day and haemorraging jobs as a consequence. The Body that represents small businesses say that since the crunch it has been virtually impossible for the well run and viable businesses to secure any sort of financial cushion from the banks...the same banks who, up until recently, were throwing money at all sorts of ill fated ventures with utter abandon as it transpired.

Then we see some posh bint from the banking federation claiming that the cause is a lack of applicants for the money and those that are applying have "deficient Business plans"....are you f***ing serious? your business plan was hardly rock f***ing solid was it love? lend billions to people who could never afford to pay it back...jobless, unskilled african americans and hispanics getting 300% mortgages, self employed labourers in Britain self certifiying their income for huge Mortgages... then bundle all those bad debts up with the good ones and sell them on to each other whilst taking a nice chunk of commish every time. For Christs sake!

Oh and US...I'm sure you made hay while the sun shone and got Mortgages for people who were doomed to fail to repay and knowing it at the time so don't complain now eh?

 

[Easy 10]

Oh and US...I'm sure you made hay while the sun shone and got Mortgages for people who were doomed to fail to repay and knowing it at the time so don't complain now eh?

HAAA ! Marvellous.
I KNEW the global economic crisis could be laid firmly at the door of Uncle S eventually. The world followed his tips, and look at the result.



(just kidding Unc )

 

[User removed 4]

I'm sure bushy will be on here tomorrow attempting to defend the indefensible every two minutes throughout his working day

You're a hypocrite ,plain and simple, you have worked for various banks and exchanges , facilitating the the smooth running of the financial markets, you're as culpable for the current financial crisis as traders who worked in totally seperate areas to the credit markets that caused the current problems, a bit late now to start trotting out the ''it wasnt me guv defence''.

 

[Simster]

I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of what could have happened had the government just allowed the banks to collapse. But in simple terms, if millions of people went to the cashpoint machines to draw some of their money out, and suddenly found that they couldn't, then I don't think its an exagerration to say there would have been a complete meltdown and rioting in the streets.

Correct. This is what happened in 20s America when banks went to the wall and the government let them do so.

Because of the fact that every pound in the economy has been lent several times over by several banks, it means they can't *all* have that pound in their possession if everyone hits the banks en masse wanting to withdraw their savings.

Confidence in the banking sector is absolutely vital for a successful economy I'm afraid. Personally I blame the people who have let the city accrue massive tax revenue but never thought to question the regulation behind this industry, while happily milking the tax it generates (9% of the GDP of the UK). Blaming "the bankers" is a bit of a crock of shit really. I mean, who are you referring to?

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

HAAA ! Marvellous.
I KNEW the global economic crisis could be laid firmly at the door of Uncle S eventually. The world followed his tips, and look at the result.



(just kidding Unc )

Don't pity him!...I've seen the way these Mortgage Brokers work, sit down with client, client has bad debts up to their eyes, CCJ's and f*** knows what else.

Broker fills out the form for them, lots of "editing" takes place then he's on the phone to the various lenders and the bidding begins, depending on the amount of risk the client represents the lenders have a sliding scale of interest rates and pretty unattractive packages generally for the worst debtors whilst the best risks get excellent rates and fabulous deals. Result? the worst off borrowers get thoroughly shafted, end up paying more they can afford in interest and default, lose house, go on the drink. Does'nt matter to the broker what happens to them after he has stitched them up with a ludicrous mortgage does it...oh no, commission rolls in and alls well in the world.

Now the lenders only want the creme de la creme of customers and everyone else can f*** off. Thing is, these customers probably dont need Uncs services as much and theres definitely less of them to go around so his work dries up. Boo.

 

[User removed 4]

Its appears nothing has changed. You have to laugh. What planet or these people on with their 5 bed detached houses in leafy Surrey. 3 holidays abroad a year, a swimming pooli in the back garden and Champagne and Cavier all the way. Lovely.

US, can you answer this question for me, its hypothetical , but here goes, you work for a mortgage broker selling plain vanilla mortgages, you have a stonkingly good year and you are on a profit share deal of 10 % of everything you make, which in this case is £5000,000, great i'm due £500,000 you think, but here's the rub, your employer also sold and marketed exotic complicated mortgages which it got into great difficulties with,though they were absolutely nothing to do with you , and had to be bailed out by the government , so now the taxpayer is the major shareholder ,its in the interest of the taxpayers to retain the talent that IS making money consistently ,by paying out bonuses, but because of the public outcry , none are going to be paid would you
a) think , ok no bonuses this year , but i'll hang aroun in the HOPE of getting one next year , even though XYZ bank down thre road are guaranteeing i'll get one if i make profits or
b) f*** off to xyz bank straight away, thus depriving the state owned bank of much needed talent ?

 

[Peteinblack]

you might need to get a better view of the world, because in nearly ALL other professions you do get bonuses, often for just keeping up. Bus drivers probably get bonuses for sticking to the time table, bin men for doing the round on time without littering the streets, nurses for hiting targets of how many patients seen. i have no idea if these do actually apply but they are the sort of thing that do occur these days, especially in the target driven culture of the public sector, with the target usualy set to ensure its met for political reasonsQUOTE]

Nurses do not get bonuses for treating patients - my wife's a nurse! Doesn't matter how well she does her job, how many patients she deals with or how many lives she saves, she won't get a single penny added to her salary.

In the public sector we're told: "Doing your job well and 'serving' the public is reward in itself". Oh, and in the current economic downturn, we'll be told: 'Be grateful if you've still got a job'. This 'advice' isn't being given to the bankers.

As to hitting targets in the public sector; we don't get a bonus if we hit our targets, but we do get our funding cut if we don't hit our targets - that's how we are 'incentivised'. Doesn't matter how hard you work, or how successful you are, your pay stays the same.

And I'm sure that this is true for much of the private sector.

 

[beorhthelm]

Nurses do not get bonuses for treating patients - my wife's a nurse! Doesn't matter how well she does her job, how many patients she deals with or how many lives she saves, she won't get a single penny added to her salary.

well thats a shame because she probably deserves it. but people in public sector do get bonues, i know some and i see the adverts that have them. In the private sector bonuses are common place. money is the best incentiviser around, pay them more for hitting/beating targets (not necessarily financial) and you will have a more productive work force.

 

[Tooting Gull]

...or c), forget everything you've been brainwashed with, and accept the fact that the whole City bonus culture is about as distasteful and unwelcome as apartheid, and equally overdue for abolition.

The solution is never going to come from those with a self-interest and that means everyone who has made money from the banking system - executives, contractors, everyone. We've tried that, it's been seen to fail. There are people out there who are not in the slightest bit embarrassed that their failed firm gets taxpayer help that hundreds of thousands of other failed businesses don't, relying only on the pathetic fallbacks of "it'll be anarchy", or "we'll all go to Frankfurt". F**k off then, I'll find you a flight. Lufthansa first class OK?

What amazes me most is reading these banking types lay into dole scroungers (£64 per week) and then attempting to justify billions of pounds of taxpayers money propping up their own failed businesses. Who are the real scroungers?

 

[User removed 4]

...or c), forget everything you've been brainwashed with, and accept the fact that the whole City bonus culture is about as distasteful and unwelcome as apartheid, and equally overdue for abolition, if you work elsewhere and don't get one.

EFA

 

[beorhthelm]

The solution is ....

yes, yes. but what is your solution then, or what has been suggested as possible alternative? i hear alot of outrage, but not alot of input into what could be done instead.

 

[Lokki 7]

...or c), forget everything you've been brainwashed with, and accept the fact that the whole City bonus culture is about as distasteful and unwelcome as apartheid, and equally overdue for abolition.

The solution is never going to come from those with a self-interest and that means everyone who has made money from the banking system - executives, contractors, everyone. We've tried that, it's been seen to fail. There are people out there who are not in the slightest bit embarrassed that their failed firm gets taxpayer help that hundreds of thousands of other failed businesses don't, relying only on the pathetic fallbacks of "it'll be anarchy", or "we'll all go to Frankfurt". F**k off then, I'll find you a flight. Lufthansa first class OK?

What amazes me most is reading these banking types lay into dole scroungers (£64 per week) and then attempting to justify billions of pounds of taxpayers money propping up their own failed businesses. Who are the real scroungers?

And the tens of billions in tax revenue generated by these hateful bankers that has been propping up the creaking NHS and state education system for years, who would replace that?

 

[Tooting Gull]

So your BEST argument is that other people wish they were bankers. If you believe that, you're more of an idiot than I thought. And I didn't think you were Einstein.

 

[Simster]

...or c), forget everything you've been brainwashed with, and accept the fact that the whole City bonus culture is about as distasteful and unwelcome as apartheid, and equally overdue for abolition.

The solution is never going to come from those with a self-interest and that means everyone who has made money from the banking system - executives, contractors, everyone. We've tried that, it's been seen to fail. There are people out there who are not in the slightest bit embarrassed that their failed firm gets taxpayer help that hundreds of thousands of other failed businesses don't, relying only on the pathetic fallbacks of "it'll be anarchy", or "we'll all go to Frankfurt". F**k off then, I'll find you a flight. Lufthansa first class OK?

What amazes me most is reading these banking types lay into dole scroungers (£64 per week) and then attempting to justify billions of pounds of taxpayers money propping up their own failed businesses. Who are the real scroungers?

That's all very well, but was is your alternative to NOT bailing out those banks?