[Albion] Rationale for starting line up and formation

[Kosh]

The art of being a good manager - if plan A doesn’t work go to plan B, identify the weaknesses, address them and rectify the problem. Graham Potter did that yesterday and we won. There were many Premier League managers yesterday who didn’t and their teams lost.

I agree of course, and yes he is very capable of rescuing things when his initial plan goes a little awry. I don't think anyone genuinely doubts his abilities any longer, it's just frustrating at times from the outside in, trying to second guess those (at times) slightly random selections. However, it's better to try something different and show that trust in your squad than not, and even our older pros are developing flexibility under a coach who demands that his players be versatile and do a job wherever and however he sees fit.

One thing pleased me yesterday, and make no mistake, the players like playing for GP and are right behind him, otherwise we would have capitulated and this (in spite of our failings in recruitment etc.) is a very good thing.

 

[Icy Gull]

One thing is absolutely certain, do this against Watford and we'll get murdered on the break. They took Matt Targett apart yesterday, who's a proper full back. I can only think this was either because he only believes Duffy can play in a back four or - terrifyingly - because he feels he has to fit Mwepu in somewhere. I really don't get why we're trying to shoehorn him into the side when most other new signings get eased in gently. Not only that but you lose Gross's creativity if he's stuck at the back and he's started ahead of the experienced Lallana and Moder who looks uber versatile. I've no idea why we're playing Moder off the bench when he can play in the middle, helped create the overloads on our left against Man City (a position he also scored from against England) and yet popped up on the right with an assist within minutes of coming on yesterday.

Or, perhaps, Potter was just trying to be too clever for his own good. This is the thing that's wrong with the cult of coaching. Sometimes football is a much more simple game. I don't just mean to apply that to GPott - if you look at Bielsa yesterday he resolutely refused to put Phillips on even though Leeds were crying out for him, presumably because he wasn't "murder ball fit". The BBC mealy mouthed something about half a pre-season - Luke Shaw, who played, was also in the Euros. White played 90 mins having been on holiday with Phillips. So, the win went to the more pragmatic Ole who overloaded his midfield with talent and bossed the game.

Credit where credit is due to GP though. We saw the issue and dealt with it. This was the opposite of last season. For once it was us getting luck with the woodwork, us having the better second half, us making the meaningful substitutions, us shithousing them to frustration. But only after a very strange opening 45.

Going slightly off topic, Watford got a bit of luck with all three goals yesterday, reminded me of some of the goals we conceded when Ryan was struggling to stop anything last season.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Going slightly off topic, Watford got a bit of luck with all three goals yesterday, reminded me of some of the goals we conceded when Ryan was struggling to stop anything last season.

True, but time and again Sarr absolutely roasted Targett and exploited the gaps in the Villa defence that appeared when they pushed up high. Imagine that against Gross and that well known pace of his

 

[Icy Gull]

True, but time and again Sarr absolutely roasted Targett and exploited the gaps in the Villa defence that appeared when they pushed up high. Imagine that against Gross and that well known pace of his

I will be stunned in GP sets up the same way against a pacy Watford side as he did against the thugs of Burnley

I might even start a Potter In/Out poll and vote OUT if he does

 

[Swansman]

I will be stunned in GP sets up the same way against a pacy Watford side as he did against the thugs of Burnley

I might even start a Potter In/Out poll and vote OUT if he does

If I see Gross as LB again I'll join in on the OUT vote.

 

[Hugo Rune]

As for what GP was thinking setting up the way he did, I just can’t fathom ... unless it was a curve ball punt, a recruitment team SOS, a Dyche confusion bomb... alas, it didn’t work at all and here’s hoping where injuries allow we never see Gross at LB ever again.

I think it was a Dyche confusion bomb that he’d been planning for a while but should have abandoned after injury to Burn and pings to Veltman.

I think we’re going to see this a lot against bottom teams who defend deep. This is because they are so well drilled and difficult to break down, our record against this sort of team was horrific last season (with two toon exceptions).

In order to do the prep and ensure we have no time or space in the attacking third, they need to know how our team will set-up more or less. This sort of confusion bomb worked amazingly against Newcastle (Potter’s best game for me), with Welbeck & Maupay as wingers and Groß and Moder as sort of false wing-backs, Bruce was totally outmanoeuvred, you could see his blind panic on the touch line, he could not see our formation or where our players were meant to be playing.

Ultimately, this tactic did work yesterday because Burnley could not adjust to our new shape and movement in the second half, that is very interesting.

What is very poor is the defending from set-pieces with Webster, Dunk & Duffy on the pitch but unable to pick up their major threats. Once again, the zonal marking system ensured the Burnley centre backs were up against players like Maupay. Awful.

 

[jcdenton08]

Just one last thing for me on this. It almost sounds like an exaggerated parody of some of Potter's strange team selections since he joined. "Oh what's he going to do next, play Groß at left back and Bissouma at number 10?!"...

 

[Stat Brother]

Watching the Neal Maupay's post-match interview and hearing in the background the Albion fans singing to the Neanderthals, "One nil and you fúcked it up!"

Least enjoyable second half moment:-

Starting that on 85 minutes

 

[Stat Brother]

One thing is absolutely certain, do this against Watford and we'll get murdered on the break. They took Matt Targett apart yesterday, who's a proper full back. I can only think this was either because he only believes Duffy can play in a back four or - terrifyingly - because he feels he has to fit Mwepu in somewhere. I really don't get why we're trying to shoehorn him into the side when most other new signings get eased in gently. Not only that but you lose Gross's creativity if he's stuck at the back and he's started ahead of the experienced Lallana and Moder who looks uber versatile. I've no idea why we're playing Moder off the bench when he can play in the middle, helped create the overloads on our left against Man City (a position he also scored from against England) and yet popped up on the right with an assist within minutes of coming on yesterday.

Or, perhaps, Potter was just trying to be too clever for his own good. This is the thing that's wrong with the cult of coaching. Sometimes football is a much more simple game. I don't just mean to apply that to GPott - if you look at Bielsa yesterday he resolutely refused to put Phillips on even though Leeds were crying out for him, presumably because he wasn't "murder ball fit". The BBC mealy mouthed something about half a pre-season - Luke Shaw, who played, was also in the Euros. White played 90 mins having been on holiday with Phillips. So, the win went to the more pragmatic Ole who overloaded his midfield with talent and bossed the game.

Credit where credit is due to GP though. We saw the issue and dealt with it. This was the opposite of last season. For once it was us getting luck with the woodwork, us having the better second half, us making the meaningful substitutions, us shithousing them to frustration. But only after a very strange opening 45.

Yeah the whole thing smacks of the one thing GPott appears not to be because it reeked of arrogance.

'Im so much smarter than you I can put my most potent attack threat, who also happens to be an oil tanker, at full back and it'll work brilliantly'.

I can't give him credit where credits due just because he reverted back to what he knows works and won.

I will heap on a shitload of praise if at some point he comes out and says 'blimey I got that wrong'.
If he admits to implementing some form of Chaos Theory after all of last season's second half snaffoos - that would be well lush.

But it's hard not to think he put that first half team out thinking it was his best chance to win.
Which after 2 years of molding his team and style is pretty scary stuff.

 

[Stat Brother]

Just one last thing for me on this. It almost sounds like an exaggerated parody of some of Potter's strange team selections since he joined. "Oh what's he going to do next, play Groß at left back and Bissouma at number 10?!"...

Maybe he's just back from Youth Hosteling With Chris Eubank.

 

[jcdenton08]

Maybe he's just back from Youth Hosteling With Chris Eubank.

Lovely stuff.

 

[Stat Brother]

 

[Kosh]

I think it was a Dyche confusion bomb that he’d been planning for a while but should have abandoned after injury to Burn and pings to Veltman.

I think we’re going to see this a lot against bottom teams who defend deep. This is because they are so well drilled and difficult to break down, our record against this sort of team was horrific last season (with two toon exceptions).

In order to do the prep and ensure we have no time or space in the attacking third, they need to know how our team will set-up more or less. This sort of confusion bomb worked amazingly against Newcastle (Potter’s best game for me), with Welbeck & Maupay as wingers and Groß and Moder as sort of false wing-backs, Bruce was totally outmanoeuvred, you could see his blind panic on the touch line, he could not see our formation or where our players were meant to be playing.

Ultimately, this tactic did work yesterday because Burnley could not adjust to our new shape and movement in the second half, that is very interesting.

What is very poor is the defending from set-pieces with Webster, Dunk & Duffy on the pitch but unable to pick up their major threats. Once again, the zonal marking system ensured the Burnley centre backs were up against players like Maupay. Awful.

Again, I agree - I watched Maupay picking up Tawkowski and thought whoops. The goal should never have stood, but fed perfectly into the narrative that Burnley are tough and we're soft - hence VAR backed them, it's the Burnley you see, just like Italy at international tournaments. Pathetic. However a clear example of why zonal marking can fail miserably if the opposition are savvy enough to play it to their advantage.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I will be stunned in GP sets up the same way against a pacy Watford side as he did against the thugs of Burnley

I might even start a Potter In/Out poll and vote OUT if he does

If I see Gross as LB again I'll join in on the OUT vote.

Fair enough chaps.

And I'll give him a great big IN for doing exactly what I asked last season and coming back from a Northern grief hole and difficult, but probably bottom 6 side with all three points.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Sometimes he tries to be just a bit too clever for his own good with his team tinkering.

Keep it simple, play to the players strengths.

 

[LamieRobertson]

We won

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Tactics ebb and flow across the PL season to season as successes are noted, researched and plugged.

One thing I noted yesterday was very few teams went with a 3 at the back, if any unless I missed something? This contrasts with a fair portion of teams going with a 3 in previous seasons.

So while a bit of a shock to us with the personnel available, not altogether surprising if we look at how tactics might start to take shape this season.

One things for sure, I’m not putting any money on the starting XI and shape next week!

 

[Perkino]

I can understand why he chose to play 3 CB's against Burnley. They are very direct and physical and having an extra CB leaves much less chance of being beaten down the flanks. I can see him sticking to something similar Vs Watford. The big decision is who plays as WB's and how.do we engage them with the build up and attacking play

 

[el punal]

The players that played out of position looked so uncomfortable, surely he had tried the formation in training. I thought Potter looked like a rabbit in the headlights when the half time whistle went, but we got over the line and we move on, hopefully lessons learnt.

I think you’re being over critical here. He obviously had a plan initially to deal with Burnley, it didn’t come to fruition so he changed it at halftime and the result was a much improved performance and a win to boot. To describe Potter as a ‘rabbit in the headlights’ is a bit of an insult. To describe the performance as getting ‘over the line’ when we had more possession, more shots on target and scored more goals somewhat negative.

It was the first game of the season, away to a horrible team to play against, and we won. At least let’s appreciate that.

 

[Perkino]

Tactics ebb and flow across the PL season to season as successes are noted, researched and plugged.

One thing I noted yesterday was very few teams went with a 3 at the back, if any unless I missed something? This contrasts with a fair portion of teams going with a 3 in previous seasons.

So while a bit of a shock to us with the personnel available, not altogether surprising if we look at how tactics might start to take shape this season.

One things for sure, I’m not putting any money on the starting XI and shape next week!

I believe Chelsea & Wolves played with 3CB's but it is in decreasing use by many as they revert to a preferred 4-2-3-1