[Football] Ranieri genius

[drew]

If that is true, why does his £200m squad only have 12 points from the 12 games since he took over?

After-timing is easy. He picked a terrible line-up (tactical genius?), failed to correct it until they were 2-0 down at home (genius?), in a game that would have been all over, had either of Murray's two decent late chances, or Pröpper's drive gone in. There is good reason, why Fulham were roundly booed off at half-time, and there were not many Fulham fans lauding his 'genius' at that point.

Weren't most of the signings before he took over?

 

[drew]

Hughton got us to half time unlucky not to be 4-0 up. He has to get credit for that. He orchestrated the approach and the players implemented it perfectly. We were superb.

The second half we conceded very early doors. The players then proceeded to bottle it. I feel like Hughton deserves credit for the good half and the players need to shoulder the blame for the awful second half. THEY bottled it. IMO

So, CH get's the credit for the players creating chances and scoring two but when it goes it wrong it's all the players fault. Where's the collective responsibility?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Weren't most of the signings before he took over?

So what?

We all saw in that second half, what the attacking players in that squad are capable of, when they are set up properly. His initial set up was an absolute shambles, and he's very, very lucky they got themselves out of a deep hole. Pröpper's strike hitting the right bit of the bar is luck on his part, not genius.

 

[Bold Seagull]

So what?

We all saw in that second half, what the attacking players in that squad are capable of, when they are set up properly. His initial set up was an absolute shambles, and he's very, very lucky they got themselves out of a deep hole. Pröpper's strike hitting the right bit of the bar is luck on his part, not genius.

Yep. Propper's and Chamber's strikes were very similar in difficulty, Propper hits the bar, Chambers goes in, such are the margins.

We could of course capitulated had Chambers missed, but I suspect the longer we'd held out, the more their belief would have ebbed, despite their genius manager.

 

[whosthedaddy]

What you have to consider is this:

Has Chris Hughton got enough tactical nouse to get out of problems that opposing managers throw at him?

I would have to say yes because of the history he has with our club, stopping us getting relegated in his first season with the Albion (after the Hypia 'experiment went pear-shaped) and in getting us promoted into the Premier League.

The question now is this:

Has he got the mentality that will put us in a better position season after season?

I have major doubts about this judging by what I've witnessed over the last season and a half.

I'm not making judgements based on knee-jerk reactions to last night second half capitulation, that's too easy, I'm just saying that I think Chris Hughton has a ceiling to his talents as a manager, can he exceed them, I very much doubt it is my belief...although I wish he could.

 

[Eric Youngs Contact Lense]

Weren't most of the signings before he took over?

They were of course, but on paper at least he has a squad (that cost a lot of money, relatively speaking) that the club believed could/should be doing much better than it was - I also agree that whilst his changes appeared to pay-off, and credit to him for being brave enough to make them, he clearly got it so badly wrong initially against one of the line-ups most easy to predict beforehand. It's very fine margins and the inquest could easily have been different had we seen the game out.. even if we had drawn.

 

[drew]

So what?

We all saw in that second half, what the attacking players in that squad are capable of, when they are set up properly. His initial set up was an absolute shambles, and he's very, very lucky they got themselves out of a deep hole. Pröpper's strike hitting the right bit of the bar is luck on his part, not genius.

What do you mean so what?

You made a comment which to most would imply that Ranieri had spent that £200m when he hadn't and you are, I hope, well aware of that.

Fulham's achilles heel this season has been regularly reported as their defence so is it any wonder he might try and shore that up. 2-0 down he changes and they go for it and we don't respond, either on the pitch or those on the bench.

 

[clockend1983]

Spot on...as well as the changes he shuffled
things about which from what I saw brought Babel
into the game more in the 2nd half and Mitrovich much
more effective.We got well beaten 2nd half and couldn’t seem to get to
grips with them
It’s done now move on and roll on Saturday
UTA

 

[Deleted member 2719]

If that is true, why does his £200m squad only have 12 points from the 12 games since he took over?

After-timing is easy. He picked a terrible line-up (tactical genius?), failed to correct it until they were 2-0 down at home (genius?), in a game that would have been all over, had either of Murray's two decent late chances, or Pröpper's drive gone in. There is good reason, why Fulham were roundly booed off at half-time, and there were not many Fulham fans lauding his 'genius' at that point.

Ranieri may be past the top of his game, but on his day there are not many manager who can live with him and Hughton was owned last night there is no getting away with that.

You could compare Ranieri with Murray both top draw on their day, its just won't be everyday as both are on the wrong side of their peak.

It’s oh so simple from your armchair, isn’t it?

I have many tools that help me:
Eyes
Ears


So I assume you are happy with conceeding 4 goals in 45 mins? Not to mention the woodwork being hammered.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

Disagree.

He experimented, failed.

Adapted, reviewed what we were doing and posed questions we couldn’t answer.

Good management and use of personnel. Tactically he was better on the night.

Genius? I don’t know, but credit is due IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We saw a classic example last night of one of the reasons why foreign coaches are rightly more highly regarded than British coaches. It is a well known fact that they are very good at that sort of in game tactical change, particularly Italian coaches over the years, as they are brought up from an early age studying the game properly rather than spending their time running around fields.

We’re getting better with our coaching but have still got a bit of a way to go to catch up with the standard of a lot of other countries coaching.

Ranieri is in a different league to Hughton in fairness and we could all see that last night. Same as Puel earlier in the season when we choked that game against Leicester we really should have won.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

We saw a classic example last night of one of the reasons why foreign coaches are rightly more highly regarded than British coaches. It is a well known fact that they are very good at that sort of in game tactical change, particularly Italian coaches over the years, as they are brought up from an early age studying the game properly rather than spending their time running around fields.

We’re getting better with our coaching but have still got a bit of a way to go to catch up with the standard of a lot of other countries coaching.

Ranieri is in a different league to Hughton in fairness and we could all see that last night.

All good points.

I maintain that Hughton actually is very good tactically, but last night was only the second time I’ve felt he got it wrong.

We are very lucky to have him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I agree, but he is a genius:

Ranieri has peripheral vision (with a strong sense of knowing how to solve problems)
Hughton has tunnel vision (usually centered around stopping goals)

**** me, I've been looking for a new optician. One that doesn't even need to see the patient? I'm in. What are your charges?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

So I assume you are happy with conceeding 4 goals in 45 mins? Not to mention the woodwork being hammered.

Big differnce between noticing we lost and knowing the reason and solution. Congratulations for noticing we lost.

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

So, CH get's the credit for the players creating chances and scoring two but when it goes it wrong it's all the players fault. Where's the collective responsibility?

Successfully NOT conceding 4 goals in one half is something that team should be capable of if I rocked up as manager for a day.

I don't see that he could have done much to stop that capitulation once it started. The players on the other hand could have grown some balls and done their jobs...

 

[*Gullsworth*]

We saw a classic example last night of one of the reasons why foreign coaches are rightly more highly regarded than British coaches. It is a well known fact that they are very good at that sort of in game tactical change, particularly Italian coaches over the years, as they are brought up from an early age studying the game properly rather than spending their time running around fields.

We’re getting better with our coaching but have still got a bit of a way to go to catch up with the standard of a lot of other countries coaching.

Ranieri is in a different league to Hughton in fairness and we could all see that last night. Same as Puel earlier in the season when we choked that game against Leicester we really should have won.

But still his team is below Hughtons and has not got a hope of catching that cad Eddie " every foreign coach is better than me" Howe.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

But still his team is below Hughtons and has not got a hope of catching that cad Eddie " every foreign coach is better than me" Howe.

Ranieri’s got 12 points since he took over, exactly the same as Hughton in that time, but with a poorer, unbalanced side that he’s only had 2 months to work with.

 

[GT49er]

Hughton got us to half time unlucky not to be 4-0 up. He has to get credit for that. He orchestrated the approach and the players implemented it perfectly. We were superb.

The second half we conceded very early doors. The players then proceeded to bottle it. I feel like Hughton deserves credit for the good half and the players need to shoulder the blame for the awful second half. THEY bottled it. IMO

The players may well have bottled it - but that was the point when they needed some managerial intervention, not waiting another 20+ minutes before bringing on a like-for-like substitution, and a full half hour before actually bringing on an extra attacker. Too little too late!

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Hughton got us to half time unlucky not to be 4-0 up. He has to get credit for that. He orchestrated the approach and the players implemented it perfectly. We were superb.

The second half we conceded very early doors. The players then proceeded to bottle it. I feel like Hughton deserves credit for the good half and the players need to shoulder the blame for the awful second half. THEY bottled it. IMO

Totally agree I really don't understand how people can go on about his negative tactics. I have only just seen a recording of last night's MOTD highlights, so admittedly am on limited info, but they didn't show Muzza's hat-trick chance in the first half, they did show Dutch Davy's bar smasher in the first half. They also showed another chance for Muzza's 4th goal. They stressed that Arnautovic (and others) battered us, but under a different ref I could see both Arnautovic's goals being disallowed, particularly the second one where he was holding Dunk down.


Yes, we were battered in the second half, but with a bit of luck going our way, we still could have won 4-5, 3-5 or even 2-5.

And that is with Mr H - who was clearly furious - admitting we were cr@p in the second half. I doubt if, at the end of the game, he went in to the dressing room and said: "I say you chaps, that was awfully bad luck, don't you know. Still chin up, and I dare say we'll do better next time around."

 

[sydney]

frankly we have lacked balls on numerous occasions ......we don't have a billy big bollocks to take the game by the scruff of the neck

 

[Bold Seagull]

Ranieri’s got 12 points since he took over, exactly the same as Hughton in that time, but with a poorer, unbalanced side that he’s only had 2 months to work with.

Well, he needs to up it to 9 points more than us of the next matching period.