Ramadan

[Wilko]

Don't forget they are OK if they are Albion midfielders too. I am sure our player of the season and face of Islam to us would be pleased at reading this thread.

The underlying current of bigotry from some folk reminds me of the racism in the North Stand last century. Listening to abuse of black players in the opposition teams, and saying it doesn't apply to Codner et al because they are brown.

So, are you not allowed to condemn any parts of a religion without being classed as a racist or an islamophobe? As someone who leans very much to the left of politics I find this a disturbing trend. Would you say for example it is perfectly acceptable to be sexist or homophobic because it is part of your someones faith or do you think it should be challenged? Challenging some beliefs in certain faiths does not instantly make someone a bigot, you can be very liberal in your views and it is for that reason that you take issues with some parts of religion.

 

[Gullflyinghigh]

So, are you not allowed to condemn any parts of a religion without being classed as a racist or an islamophobe? As someone who leans very much to the left of politics I find this a disturbing trend. Would you say for example it is perfectly acceptable to be sexist or homophobic because it is part of your someones faith or do you think it should be challenged? Challenging some beliefs in certain faiths does not instantly make someone a bigot, you can be very liberal in your views and it is for that reason that you take issues with some parts of religion.

Be fair, he underlined 'some' in his post.

There's nothing wrong with challenging or condemning parts of a belief system, but read through the thread and see if you think that 'some' seem to be a little more frothy mouthed than others.

 

[Wilko]

Be fair, he underlined 'some' in his post.

There's nothing wrong with challenging or condemning parts of a belief system, but read through the thread and see if you think that 'some' seem to be a little more frothy mouthed than others.

I know but I really am starting to tire of this belief that if you find one fault in a faith then you are labelled a bigot, Islamophobe or worse still a racist. I actually think it is more ethical to challenge some of the beliefs of Islam than it is to stand back and say 'ok, it is your belief, that is fine'.

I once challenged a guy in Dubai Mall who was pulling his wife/girlfriend out a shop by her hair. I was then pushed away by others telling me to not get involved in personal domestics, I then proceeded to watch the woman continue to be dragged down the escalator whilst being held around the neck and throat. What do we do? Stand back and say ok, fair enough, your culture and belief or do we challenge it?

 

[Dave the OAP]

The Egyptians are and the Greeks beat them too.

The ptolemy's were Greek....cleopatra etc.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The ptolemy's were Greek....cleopatra etc.

Cleopatra was later than the Greeks. She was Roman times.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Cleopatra was later than the Greeks. She was Roman times.

No, her family were of Greek stock. Ptolemy's!

The Greeks, or hellenics had towns and cities in Italy at the same time as Rome was a little Etruscan backwater. As Rome grew, these were assimilated into the Roman Empire, although what we know as Greece was a dispirited selection of city states and never really a country as it is now.

 

[Perfidious Albion]

Ramadan? ....live and let live

 

[Thunder Bolt]

No, her family were of Greek stock. Ptolemy's!

The Greeks, or hellenics had towns and cities in Italy at the same time as Rome was a little Etruscan backwater. As Rome grew, these were assimilated into the Roman Empire, although what we know as Greece was a dispirited selection of city states and never really a country as it is now.

Alexander was a force to be reckoned with though.

 

[hart's shirt]

I once challenged a guy in Dubai Mall who was pulling his wife/girlfriend out a shop by her hair. I was then pushed away by others telling me to not get involved in personal domestics, I then proceeded to watch the woman continue to be dragged down the escalator whilst being held around the neck and throat. What do we do? Stand back and say ok, fair enough, your culture and belief or do we challenge it?

How can one say for sure that the aforementioned guy was a professing Muslim?

With more expats of different faiths and none in Dubai than locals, it's highly possible that he wasn't Muslim.

It would appear to have little if anything to do with Islam as a religion and much more to do with a potentially abusive relationship.

I've been living here in Dubai for 12 years. I've never seen anything like this. It's certainly not a usual behavior exhibited by locals or expats alike.

Either way, I'm sorry that you had to witness it. And yes, I think you did the right thing by trying to intervene.

 

[carlzeiss]

Only in the crazy world of religion could girls over the age of 5 be banned from becoming cyclists .

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...r-five-riding-bikes-provocative-a7064201.html

 

[Codner pharmaceuticals]

So, are you not allowed to condemn any parts of a religion without being classed as a racist or an islamophobe? As someone who leans very much to the left of politics I find this a disturbing trend. Would you say for example it is perfectly acceptable to be sexist or homophobic because it is part of your someones faith or do you think it should be challenged? Challenging some beliefs in certain faiths does not instantly make someone a bigot, you can be very liberal in your views and it is for that reason that you take issues with some parts of religion.

Challenging is always good. Not questioning or generalisations aren't usually helpful. I did even use the underline functionality for "some".

 

[SeagullofMalaysia]

I understand that Ramadan is in fact a pre Islamic tradition, which has pagan roots developed in India and the Middle East. Muhammad made the mistake of sending some of his fighters out on a raid during Ramadan and they killed some merchants. Many of Muhammads followers were upset that this occured during Ramadan so Muhammad claimed that Allah said it was ok to kill non believers during this time.

Is this true?

This is not true. And from which source did you get this story? I'm not sure if this story even exists. But I'll try to answer it anyway: Muhammad espoused peace and egalitarianism (the Islam we see today in Arabia aka Wahabiism which demonizes women is a result of centuries of politicisation by the Ottoman empire and the ruling family of Saudi Arabia and its predecessors (and I'm sure there's more before the former). And Muhammad and his followers only went to war once they're pissed off enough with the attacks on other Muslims by non followers at that time

Sent from popcorn packets for NSC binfests

 

[burnee54]

Muslims are only OK if they're boxers - I thought that was the rule?
Vote leave.

Or Midfielders

edit Damn, beaten to it (twice) that'll teach me not to read the rest of the thread before I post a reply.

 

[symyjym]

This is not true. And from which source did you get this story? I'm not sure if this story even exists. But I'll try to answer it anyway: Muhammad espoused peace and egalitarianism (the Islam we see today in Arabia aka Wahabiism which demonizes women is a result of centuries of politicisation by the Ottoman empire and the ruling family of Saudi Arabia and its predecessors (and I'm sure there's more before the former). And Muhammad and his followers only went to war once they're pissed off enough with the attacks on other Muslims by non followers at that time

Sent from popcorn packets for NSC binfests

This is not true. This is what Islam wants Muslims to believe. Muhammad was a successful merchant with a rich wife but got kicked out of Mecca for being a disruptive influence. The Medinan's gave him safe refuge but never accepted him as a prophet. In the end he turned on those who saved him.

Do you know the story of the Tribe of Banu Qurayza?

 

[symyjym]

[MENTION=33890]SeagullofMalaysia[/MENTION]

This was the caravan raid during Ramadan. Muhammad sent them out during Ramadan and he had to be reminded that it was a sacred month after the crime was committed.

Quite an embarrassment to forget, but to save face he endorsed it and said they have done worse. So from that time anyone who is a non Muslim can be killed during Ramadan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakhla_raid

https://youtu.be/NKPKYnNQ4B8

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

Yep, but the Hadith are ordered by authenticity and if they are deemed authentic, that is what Muslims believe. Sahih Bukhari Hadith’s are probably the most trustworthy as far as Islam is concerned. It is his Hadith that goes into detail about the slaughtering of 600 - 900 Jews from the Banu Qurayza tribe. Any Muslim who rejects the Hadit's is not considered a real Muslim by other Muslims.

Not entirely true... I know quite a lot of Muslims who now reject hadith... but then again the imam would proabbly reject them. In all religions there are lots of shades.....

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

That's very skewed. There was a bomb in Turkey today and although not confirmed, looks unlikely that the perpatrators were doing it for religious reasons...more likely part of the Kurdish /Turkish insurgency.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

You know Im just deleting this because I totally misunderstood..... Muslims are supposed to believe that you should not fight and kill during Ramadan but Daeesh don't seem to care....

 

[symyjym]

Not entirely true... I know quite a lot of Muslims who now reject hadith... but then again the imam would proabbly reject them. In all religions there are lots of shades.....

Muslims who reject the Hadith are called munkaar e hadith by other Muslims. I guess it depends in which country you declare Hadith rejection because it doesn't go down well with your peers. I wouldn't want to preach Hadith rejection on the streets of Bangladesh at the moment.

 

[alfredmizen]

most iranians call themselves persians......anyway back on track...australia are currently playing greece in melbourne ....oz fans outnumbered heavily by greek oz fans....this is happening right now ...you wont have to google or youtube it ...but any way ...the greek fans will leave the game and then go back to being Ozzies....this is the way it is with the greeks , italians , spanish......i can't see the same thing happening in sydney if there was a friendly with syria or particularly lebanon.....some of you will take my point and understand it , others will understand it but still argue against it.

Iranians arent Arabs either.