[Finance] Rachel Reeves to reveal £20bn shortfall left by Conservative Government

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

If you have earned it, and paid tax on it as you earned it, why can't you gift what's left to your wife? Or your kids? When you die, or before. Taxing the gift is wrong. I say that as a Labour party member.

You can. Totally tax free.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

If thresholds come down…my aver.

It’s not entitled for my children to expect what your parents worked for, (me as parent in this example), to be left to you without being taxed.
The reason we work is to leave our children with the benefits of what we have worked for all our lives.
So they can have a better start in life than I experienced.
It’s called aspiration and wanting your children to have what you didn’t have. To provide for them in a way you weren’t provided for.

It is entitled, your children should crack on and make their own money. I don't expect or need to receive a penny from my parents. I have no expectations on anyone else's money.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

If you have earned it, and paid tax on it as you earned it, why can't you gift what's left to your wife? Or your kids? When you die, or before. Taxing the gift is wrong. I say that as a Labour party member.

When my Mum died back in 2011 she left her estate to me and my Brother. I, immediately, gave my inheritance to my two sons and because of the 7 year taper relief rule the gift is now exempt from IHT. I’ve also taken financial advice and made plans to minimise liability in our wills.

 

[Jim in the West]

If thresholds come down…my aver.

It’s not entitled for my children to expect what your parents worked for, (me as parent in this example), to be left to you without being taxed.
The reason we work is to leave our children with the benefits of what we have worked for all our lives.
So they can have a better start in life than I experienced.
It’s called aspiration and wanting your children to have what you didn’t have. To provide for them in a way you weren’t provided for.

IHT doesn’t stop anyone passing on their wealth. With tax-free transfers between spouses, and the allowance ref property, you can pass on around £1m tax free, with the rest taxed at 40%. So the children of rich parents still get a huge boost.
Although obviously, because most adults will die in their 70s and 80s, their offspring are no longer children, and should already have provided for themselves (if they’re waiting for their inheritance before sorting out their lives, they probably need a kick up the arse!)

 

[WATFORD zero]

Don’t know about percentages but according to The Guardian there are 69,000 self made millionaires in the UK and I honestly think that there couldn’t be that many from old money? Just an entrenched view that it’s the Lords and Dukes - in modern times it’s the grafters that earn the money

Did you actually read the article you are quoting ?

A survey of Britain's 69,000 self-made millionaires has unravelled the mindset of the successful entrepreneurs and found most like to take risks, half come from unprivileged backgrounds

And this is only 'self made millionaires'.

If you really believe most of the wealth today comes from 'the grafters' and not inherited money, then I really don't know where to start

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

IHT doesn’t stop anyone passing on their wealth. With tax-free transfers between spouses, and the allowance ref property, you can pass on around £1m tax free, with the rest taxed at 40%. So the children of rich parents still get a huge boost.
Although obviously, because most adults will die in their 70s and 80s, their offspring are no longer children, and should already have provided for themselves (if they’re waiting for their inheritance before sorting out their lives, they probably need a kick up the arse!)

It isn't as simple as that. Some kids for a range of reasons may need more support than others.

 

[Bodian]

If thresholds come down…my aver.

It’s not entitled for my children to expect what your parents worked for, (me as parent in this example), to be left to you without being taxed.
The reason we work is to leave our children with the benefits of what we have worked for all our lives.
So they can have a better start in life than I experienced.
It’s called aspiration and wanting your children to have what you didn’t have. To provide for them in a way you weren’t provided for.

Out of interest, given all the various exemptions / thresholds / passing on the house adding to the threshold and so on - are you actually expecting your estate to pay IHT?

Say, for example, you are married and have an 'average Sussex house' which you leave to the other half (or has been left to you by the other half), and then left to the children. That means no IHT until the estate is £1m. IHT will then be 40% of anything over £1m.

So - your children will inherit £1m tax-free, and 60% of the remainder.

Given your comments, I would hazard a guess that this would mean that they have a better start in life than you did / provide for them in the way you weren't? Which is your concern / desire.

But also, it partly depends on your age, and the age of your children. My father-in-law is now 90, my wife 51. She has already made her 'start in life'. If anything, any inheritance from her father (which will be entirely IHT free as his estate, despite having a house in it, will be nowhere close to qualifying for IHT) will be to give her a 'better end to her life' - ie: it may well provide her with a pension.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Bollocks.

Talking down the economy and trying to invent a bleaker narrative is one of the oldest tricks in the book when you're about to raise taxes!

The OBR gives the opposition (then Labour) all of the previous governments spending, debt and financial info ahead of them being elected. It's totally transparent these days, Labout had all of "the books" before they stepped foot in downing street, pretending there's some hidden 20B black holes the OBR reports didn't show is just trying to con the general public, to paint a narrative to justify what they're planning to do in the the budget and to seek to shift the blame for it.

Imho of course.

I'm not sure they are pretending anything. They are simply confirming what they thought they knew, and what informed their manifesto which, as far as I am aware, did not promise tax cuts and that left some room for raising certain types of tax. It isn't just 'the books' it is other aspects of the economy. If everyone had access to everything there would be no scope for argument in parliament. Forgive me but I seem to recall rether heated disagreement in parliament.

 

[cunning fergus]

I'm not sure they are pretending anything. They are simply confirming what they thought they knew, and what informed their manifesto which, as far as I am aware, did not promise tax cuts and that left some room for raising certain types of tax. It isn't just 'the books' it is other aspects of the economy. If everyone had access to everything there would be no scope for argument in parliament. Forgive me but I seem to recall rether heated disagreement in parliament.

Naivety at best, rank partisanship at worst. This is a standard U.K. political tactic these days, had brain dead Liam Byrne not been so stupid with his “no money left note” there would have been a black hole found by the Tories in 2015 just as there was by Osbourne in 2010 much to Darling’s chagrin.

Simple fact is the early part of any new Govt provides the best opportunity to deal with bad news and up taxes. That is what’s coming, and the Tories knew it which is possibly why the election was bought forward and they won’t have a new leader till November.

The political parties knew it though, it was all in the OBR reports and why the IFS called it a “conspiracy of silence” in the election……

Election Special: Is there a 'conspiracy of silence' between both parties? | Institute for Fiscal Studies

In this episode, we discuss the tight fiscal situation after the next budget, and also look at how the education system is faring.

ifs.org.uk

It’s just another example of U.K. Governments (along with Post Office scandal, blood contamination, mortgage prisoners, reducing immigration, Sir Fred Goodwin, cash for questions, political expenses, lockdown, hypocrisy, Greensill, Hinduja Bros favours, Project Volvo, Weapons of mass destruction, abolishing boom & bust, Hillsborough, net zero) taking the electorate for mugs and dry f*cking them up the sh*tter.

Nothing will change till they are absolutely forced too…..or replaced.

 

[Machiavelli]

It isn't as simple as that. Some kids for a range of reasons may need more support than others.

And if they do, then the state should step in, using funds collected from things like IHT

 

[Peteinblack]

I do find it amusing that Tories (mainly) are so adamant about defending inheritance, when they also complain constantly about too many people getting 'something for nothing' due to other people's hard work.

If I inherited a £ million, what have I actually done to deserve or earn it? I've been given a 'hand-out' for nothing!

Of course, we know that inheritance is mainly about defending the wealthy (who Tories worship), whereas complaints about 'getting something for nothing' is usually attacking those on welfare (who Tories hate - even though many welfare claimants are in-work, but paid crap wages).

 

[BBassic]

If thresholds come down…my aver.

It’s not entitled for my children to expect what your parents worked for, (me as parent in this example), to be left to you without being taxed.
The reason we work is to leave our children with the benefits of what we have worked for all our lives.
So they can have a better start in life than I experienced.
It’s called aspiration and wanting your children to have what you didn’t have. To provide for them in a way you weren’t provided for.

I don't necessarily disagree with most of this.

I'm seeing it from a different angle though.

I am a child of parents who will leave my siblings and I some properties when they pass.

They've done exactly as you've described - worked hard, raised kids and have set us up for the sad day they pass away.

But the law of the land says that, if we meet the criteria, then we will pay tax on that.

And that's fine by me.

I've done nothing to earn that money. As a lefty semi-socialist I'd view it as unfair if I got given it no string attached.

I feel like I should have a more concrete point but I'm having trouble putting words to it

 

[Me Atome]

Nobody likes taxes, but in this world we have to pay them.

Some version of IHT has been around for donkeys years. I don't really mind it in principle, as long as its not excessive.

 

[Rdodge30]

Did you actually read the article you are quoting ?

A survey of Britain's 69,000 self-made millionaires has unravelled the mindset of the successful entrepreneurs and found most like to take risks, half come from unprivileged backgrounds

And this is only 'self made millionaires'.

If you really believe most of the wealth today comes from 'the grafters' and not inherited money, then I really don't know where to start

you do understand what self made means though ? Your prejudice runs to self made millionaires unless they are the 34,000+ that apparently came from poverty?

Of course we have to define what the Guardian actually means by privilege but I don’t really want to go down that rabbit hole either


Me personally- I can’t be the guy to say people that pay vast amounts of tax should be paying more … if we are talking about tax evasion and closing loopholes then fair enough but I am firmly in the minority that think …they tax us when we earn it - they tax us when we spend it and they tax us when we save it … then what ? They tax us when we die?? So I am against increasing inheritance tax

 

[WATFORD zero]

you do understand what self made means though ? Your prejudice runs to self made millionaires unless they are the 34,000+ that apparently came from poverty?

Of course we have to define what the Guardian actually means by privilege but I don’t really want to go down that rabbit hole either


Me personally- I can’t be the guy to say people that pay vast amounts of tax should be paying more … if we are talking about tax evasion and closing loopholes then fair enough but I am firmly in the minority that think …they tax us when we earn it - they tax us when we spend it and they tax us when we save it … then what ? They tax us when we die?? So I am against increasing inheritance tax

You do know that you can't be taxed if you're dead

But what do you believe the people that will have to pay the IHT on what you leave will think ? They've been very lucky or it's outrageous the Government are taxing what they've inherited through the luck of birth ? I know that the people that will be paying the IHT on what I leave do consider themselves to have been extremely lucky having actually talked to them about it.

Oh, and my definition of self made, would be someone who made their own money from scratch and didn't use a 'privileged background' as a head start. Bought up in social housing, went to state school, didn't have financial help from their parents, that sort of thing

The Family gave me a £30m loan/company to get started but I made that £1m/Daddy introduced me to some old friends in the City/The chaps from Eton said I simply must go into business with them, not so much. You know, your 'grafters'

And the article that you quoted (over 20 years old, but without any source) simply said half of self proclaimed 'self made millionaires' came from 'privileged backgrounds' but have no idea what the details of the quote are. And I certainly wouldn't want to go down 'rabbit holes' from articles that are over 20 years old

 

[Winker]

If there's a £20Bn black hole in the budget then cut spending by £20Bn. Problem solved - next!

 

[Silverhatch]

If there's a £20Bn black hole in the budget then cut spending by £20Bn. Problem solved - next!

 

[Greenbag50]

its not your kids house either, they need to go out and do what you did...

It is if I say it is.
It’s my house, bought and paid for.
No one has the right to say any different.

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

You do know that you can't be taxed if you're dead

But you can support Reform.

 

[Bob!]

If there's a £20Bn black hole in the budget then cut spending by £20Bn. Problem solved - next!

Or raise taxes on the individuals and corporations that are squirreling the wealth.