Questionable Refereeing

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

Talk on Saturday about how professional referees next year will give us better refs. But the argument was how can this be so, it will be the same refs but on more money.

Well if thats the case then they need to be held accountable for outright shit decisions. Oh I dont know like Dales sending off v Boro and Barton not against Kayal.

 

[Notters]

Talk on Saturday about how professional referees next year will give us better refs. But the argument was how can this be so, it will be the same refs but on more money.

It's this season, not next year!

 

[severnside gull]

Is that the case? or is it more camera's etc at games means every decision is watched 100 times in super slow mo?

The lack of clarity on new tolerance levels for holding & pulling at set pieces and showing dissent seem to play right into the hands of Asian betting markets where the number of bookings or penalties awarded etc are central topics for often large wagers. Just needs the referee to agree for serious cash to change hands quickly and easily. The change on Saturday from the normal pattern of second half bookings to a very untypical rash of first half yellow cards would potentially be an indicator that something might not be quite right.
I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist but it's so open to scams I struggle to believe that the opportunity isn't being taken. I

 

[Guinness Boy]

I'm convinced that the way we were reacting made the ref think long and hard about some of those decisions in the first half and realise that he'd been conned by Barnsley players time and again. His refereeing of the second half was completely at odds with his first half performance. Do the linos and ref share a dressing room? If so, maybe they discussed the decisions between themselves and the linos put the ref right on a few incidents.

Our suggestion was that he was only able to point in a Northerly direction. Like he had an inbuilt compass or something.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Reffing my sons' games has been a real eye opener.

Nobody goes into games with an intention to be rubbish. Nobody goes into it with a view to be biased. But we arent professional and will make mistakes. After all at that level refs are only there to help out. That doesn't mean that they deserve the smart arse comments that they get from other parents. Given we don't have linesmen until under 11, If a coach can see how the ball has gone out it does help to give the ref a helping hand with a signal.

I saw an under 10 game yesterday as a neutral and the ref was superb. Very fair and balanced and a good balance between calling fouls and not being taken in by diving. one great moment where a player went shoulder to shoulder and went down on the ground and sat there complaining for over a minute . When the ball went out of play the ref asked if he was injured and needed to go off at which point he miraculously got up. However I found out afterwards that one of the teams Facebook pages called the ref partisan and seemed to glory in the fact that one of their players liked putting it about a bit.

With stuff like that is it any wonder that people are put off.

Yes indeed, I would echo a lot of this. I've reffed a couple of under 10s games and it does give you a new perspective on it all.

However the worst one I've ever had was refereeing a friendly where we unfortunately got thrashed 12-1 against a much stronger team. I have a joint manager and he coached the game while I reffed. I didn't get too many comments reffing as there were not many contentious decisions. Our heads dropped and that was that. Afterwards, though. I was taken to task on our whatsapp group for my terrible coaching by one of the mums. Er, I was the ref, love.

 

[ROSM]

The best comments are the ones where the coach is being sarcastic saying things like 'well the refs given it so you have to accept it even though he's wrong'

 

[Eeyore]

Reffing my sons' games has been a real eye opener.

Nobody goes into games with an intention to be rubbish. Nobody goes into it with a view to be biased. But we arent professional and will make mistakes. After all at that level refs are only there to help out. That doesn't mean that they deserve the smart arse comments that they get from other parents. Given we don't have linesmen until under 11, If a coach can see how the ball has gone out it does help to give the ref a helping hand with a signal.

I saw an under 10 game yesterday as a neutral and the ref was superb. Very fair and balanced and a good balance between calling fouls and not being taken in by diving. one great moment where a player went shoulder to shoulder and went down on the ground and sat there complaining for over a minute . When the ball went out of play the ref asked if he was injured and needed to go off at which point he miraculously got up. However I found out afterwards that one of the teams Facebook pages called the ref partisan and seemed to glory in the fact that one of their players liked putting it about a bit.

With stuff like that is it any wonder that people are put off.

I think it's hard to referee any game with any sort of perfection. For example, I felt the referee on Saturday was fine. And he is a lot closer to things than we are. I do think, going back many years, that there were referees with certain team biases though.

 

[Audax]

A good system would be to look after the refs and back them at all levels, no one wants to be a ref any more, which means we are left with a smaller pool.

You might want to look up what they've done with cricket umpiring and the Elite Panel. They've managed to build a system where they manage to relatively successfully combine backing the umpires alongside holding them to account on both accuracy and consistency. Last time I saw stats on the elite panel, those umpires where performing to a much higher standard that international umpires were prior to the system coming in.

If you go for a system that always 100% backs the ref, all you really accomplish is to embed complacency into the refs' minds. If there's no incentive to do you best all of the time, and no consequences for being a bit rubbish, then you're going to end up with a pool of Refs who - whether consciously or not - end up in a mindset of "good enough is good enough" instead of striving to do their absolute best.

I'd start with ripping out the current red card appeal process and putting in place a fully independent reviews process. Alongside that, I'd borrow from Australia's AFL post-match video review system to conduct post-match reviews of player behaviour; those reviews not being restricted by whether or not an on-field Ref saw the incident and ruled on it. These post-match reviews would be for both player-on-player incidents (including diving), as well as referee intimidation incidents. Why? Because I firmly believe that you can make the Ref's job a whole lot easier if the players know and understand that any on-field shenanigans will be reviewed and punished post match, whether or not the Ref saw it. Players will begin to behave better, and Refs will be able to put more of their concentration into making the right decisions more consistently.

 

[Gwylan]

The best comments are the ones where the coach is being sarcastic saying things like 'well the refs given it so you have to accept it even though he's wrong'

I'd say that's where many of the problems stem from. I doubt whether many rugby or cricket coaches would say that - the ethos is that the ref is always right and you never question decisions. In rugby, you will actually be penalised for doing so. If kids learn from a very young age that it's OK to criticise refs they'll carry on doing it and thus perpetuate a gulf between refs and players.

 

[Rodney Thomas]

I saw an under 10 game yesterday as a neutral and the ref was superb. Very fair and balanced and a good balance between calling fouls and not being taken in by diving.

What a sad state football is in now!