Question for all the NSC (pet) fish experts

[Norman Potting]

Totally random but.....

We have a 60l cold water aquarium - little stripy fish (Oreos - or are they biscuits?) seem to thrive in it, currently we have 8 of the little beggars swimming around and doing fishy things.

However.... Over the past couple of years we have tried to keep a few fantail type fish in with them, which after a few weeks (ok the first couple did last for around 6 months)they succumb to swim bladder disease and die.

My solution was to not keep this type of fish, but after Christmas Mrs P wanted a couple of these "proper" fish so I bought some more. Sadly these two are also now on their last fins. I have changed water, tried swim bladder medicine from the local fish centre and also feeding them squished peas for a change (got this idea from a website) but to no avail.

Any ideas from you fish keepers out there as to why these don't seem to last long in our tank?

 

[Camicus]

Its proberley not swim bladder. If this is only effecting the fancy gold fish then its as likely to be a problem with the food as there abdominal cavitys are packed so tightly if they gulp air when feeding it causes the same effect. Try changing there food also might be worth taking a sample of your water to be tested at the place you brought your fish from they can check for ammonia levels ph balance nitrates to see if theres a problem with your water

 

[spongy]

I'd go with water quality issues myself. A 60l tank is generally considered too small for goldfish, their natural habitat is lakes and ponds and need the space to swim.

Does your tank have a filter? If not then I think it's ammonia poisoning, a water test kit would be a good idea too. The best out there is the API master fresh ware test kit. About 20 quid on eBay.

Goldfish are notorious eaters and shitters and produce a lot of shit and ammonia that poisons them. So you need regular water changes preferably with de chlorinated water. You can get de chlorinator from any aquatic fish shop and some normal pet shops.

 

[Chris45]

Have a readup here. Goldfish Care Basics - The First Tank Guide - Tips for Giving Your Pet Goldfish a Long and Healthy Life

 

[Superphil]

Take a sample of water along to your local aquarium fish shop and let them tell you the (bad) news. Water needs to be tip top, and as has been said goldfish polute water a lot. Also, reduce the amount you feed the fish by 50%.

Essentials to keep your tank good:
10-20% water change a week.
Use 'Tap water safe' treatments when adding new water.
Use mains water rather than water from your hot water system.
Clean filter using water taken from the tank, then discard the water.
If using treatments make sure you follow instructions, especially if it tells you to remove carbon or zeolite filter elements (some treatments won't work if you don't)
Use a syphon cleaner to remove the crap from the gravel.
Check water temperature, make sure heater is keeping it constant.
Test your water yourself weekly, I use dip strips every week, and a full test kit monthly. If things go pear shape, I take a sample down to Maidenhead Aquatics in Findon for a second opinion, they normally have a solution (occasionally in a bottle costing a fiver!).
Oh, did I mention a water change? Thats the main thing to do as you add more fish. Use mains water rather than from your hot water tank, warm the water to the correct temperature using water from the kettle. (Don't forget the tap water conditioner)

 

[Seagull Steve]

Take a sample of water along to your local aquarium fish shop and let them tell you the (bad) news. Water needs to be tip top, and as has been said goldfish polute water a lot. Also, reduce the amount you feed the fish by 50%.

Essentials to keep your tank good:
10-20% water change a week.
Use 'Tap water safe' treatments when adding new water.
Use mains water rather than water from your hot water system.
Clean filter using water taken from the tank, then discard the water.
If using treatments make sure you follow instructions, especially if it tells you to remove carbon or zeolite filter elements (some treatments won't work if you don't)
Use a syphon cleaner to remove the crap from the gravel.
Check water temperature, make sure heater is keeping it constant.
Test your water yourself weekly, I use dip strips every week, and a full test kit monthly. If things go pear shape, I take a sample down to Maidenhead Aquatics in Findon for a second opinion, they normally have a solution (occasionally in a bottle costing a fiver!).
Oh, did I mention a water change? Thats the main thing to do as you add more fish. Use mains water rather than from your hot water tank, warm the water to the correct temperature using water from the kettle. (Don't forget the tap water conditioner)

Great advice, but in a 60l tank with goldfish, I would suggest 50% water change. Even if you do 25% twice a week. Other than that, cleaning the filter using only the tank water, so as not to loose the denitrifying bacteria, will help with general water quality issues. But as Superphil says, to keep fish in good health, a TESTING KIT IS A MUST.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Keeping fish sounds like a massive BALLACHE

 

[Superphil]

Keeping fish sounds like a massive BALLACHE

It might seem that way, but I guess it is a hobby of sorts, so you have to put some effort in. Generally my tank is spot on 99% of the time, due to keeping to the maintenance regime. My next project will be a small marine tank, complete with coral, Nemo type fish and a few others, maybe a miniature lobster! Now I expect that to be a bit more challenging, but it is all about preventative maintenance (fresh or marine) then you get to enjoy looking at them, very therapeutic.

 

[Herne Hill Seagull]

I'd certainly concur with the water change comments; goldfish are messy and need large, regular changes. Make sure you're using a gravel cleaning hoover thingy to get rid of all their crap on the tank bottom.

I'd suggest one other thing, though - if it's the same tank and fancier types are dying of the same symptoms, it's possible you've got a disease in the tank which tougher fish are resisting but is killing off the fancier ones. Even if you've had no other fish in there for months, it's possible the longer-lived toughies are carriers and the pathogen is still about.

If that's the case (and I offer it only as a possibility) the only way to know for sure is to keep any new arrivals in a quarantine tank first. If they do fine in there and then drop dead in the main tank despite a proper water change regime, it's a possibility.

 

[Billy the Fish]

It might seem that way, but I guess it is a hobby of sorts, so you have to put some effort in. Generally my tank is spot on 99% of the time, due to keeping to the maintenance regime. My next project will be a small marine tank, complete with coral, Nemo type fish and a few others, maybe a miniature lobster! Now I expect that to be a bit more challenging, but it is all about preventative maintenance (fresh or marine) then you get to enjoy looking at them, very therapeutic.

Yeah, a friend had a marine tank with coral, loads of fish and some little crabs, it was amazing to watch. You really do need to view it as a regular hobby because it cost £1000s to get it all running and then hours of cleaning and making sure the water is all how it should be. I think he got bored with it because I went round there once and all that was left was his parrot fish, they must be quite hardy because it was filthy and everything else was dead!

 

[Superphil]

Yeah, a friend had a marine tank with coral, loads of fish and some little crabs, it was amazing to watch. You really do need to view it as a regular hobby because it cost £1000s to get it all running and then hours of cleaning and making sure the water is all how it should be. I think he got bored with it because I went round there once and all that was left was his parrot fish, they must be quite hardy because it was filthy and everything else was dead!

That's really sad to hear, if I ever get bored, I will take all my stock back to the shop.

 

[jevs]

I have a marine nano reef (with an anemone and pair of "Nemos") and a 5 foot high tech planted tank.

My theory on a few of the suggestions on here.

Firstly, i don't own a test kit and have never tested a freshwater tank in my life. Let's say an inexperienced fishkeeper reads that their tank should have a pH of 7 for example. They test the water and find out it's 7.8. What do they do next ? All the fish and plants are happy, feeding and doing what they normally do. So you reach for god knows what in the cupboard and start throwing stuff in the tank. Watch your fish and they will soon let you know if something's up.

Also, ive never used dechlorinator either in 40 years of keeping fish...waste of time in my opinion.

With regards to the OP, the tank is, again in my opinion, far too small for goldfish. You need to be looking at a minimum of 30 gallons and a decent filter....they're shit machines as mentioned.

Pic of my 5 foot, high tech planted tank

And my Nemos (Common Clownfish)

 

[Norman Potting]

Take a sample of water along to your local aquarium fish shop and let them tell you the (bad) news. Water needs to be tip top, and as has been said goldfish polute water a lot. Also, reduce the amount you feed the fish by 50%.

Essentials to keep your tank good:
10-20% water change a week.
Use 'Tap water safe' treatments when adding new water.
Use mains water rather than water from your hot water system.
Clean filter using water taken from the tank, then discard the water.
If using treatments make sure you follow instructions, especially if it tells you to remove carbon or zeolite filter elements (some treatments won't work if you don't)
Use a syphon cleaner to remove the crap from the gravel.
Check water temperature, make sure heater is keeping it constant.
Test your water yourself weekly, I use dip strips every week, and a full test kit monthly. If things go pear shape, I take a sample down to Maidenhead Aquatics in Findon for a second opinion, they normally have a solution (occasionally in a bottle costing a fiver!).
Oh, did I mention a water change? Thats the main thing to do as you add more fish. Use mains water rather than from your hot water tank, warm the water to the correct temperature using water from the kettle. (Don't forget the tap water conditioner)

Thanks for all the wise words - the ones that suffer from this are more fantail than goldfish - we were advised on startup that Goldfish are not for aquariums because they will outgrow them. I do have a filter but I think I need to be a bit more meticuous in cleaning and testing. With regard to food I was advised to soak it first in some water from the aquarium before dropping else it rehydrates in the fish. What is the best food to suit both types of fish, I currently use Tetra Goldfish Gold Japan which I crush up before feeding.

 

[Superphil]

Thanks for all the wise words - the ones that suffer from this are more fantail than goldfish - we were advised on startup that Goldfish are not for aquariums because they will outgrow them. I do have a filter but I think I need to be a bit more meticuous in cleaning and testing. With regard to food I was advised to soak it first in some water from the aquarium before dropping else it rehydrates in the fish. What is the best food to suit both types of fish, I currently use Tetra Goldfish Gold Japan which I crush up before feeding.

I think a decent store will be best to advise on the food, but for standard tropical fish, a standard Aquarian flake should be fine,but seriously, don't over feed, just a tiny amount once a day. The 'fantails' you refer to, are these guppies, mollies, or a different breed? Again I think you'd be best speaking to a decent aquarium store, who can identify the specific species of fish you have and advise on food, water temperature etc. Jevs mentioned above about avoiding test kits, and I see what he means, but with regards ammonia, nitrate and nitrite, and other bad water conditions, these are good indicators as to the condition of your water. And the instructions on the kits give you information as to how to improve the water. In the main water changes make the biggest difference, as for dechlorinators, well I've been advised to use them, and always have, and have always had pretty good water. I also have a couple of fairly easy to follow reference books which are invaluable if I have an issue I can't reconcile.

 

[spongy]

I have a marine nano reef (with an anemone and pair of "Nemos") and a 5 foot high tech planted tank.

My theory on a few of the suggestions on here.

Firstly, i don't own a test kit and have never tested a freshwater tank in my life. Let's say an inexperienced fishkeeper reads that their tank should have a pH of 7 for example. They test the water and find out it's 7.8. What do they do next ? All the fish and plants are happy, feeding and doing what they normally do. So you reach for god knows what in the cupboard and start throwing stuff in the tank. Watch your fish and they will soon let you know if something's up.

Also, ive never used dechlorinator either in 40 years of keeping fish...waste of time in my opinion.

With regards to the OP, the tank is, again in my opinion, far too small for goldfish. You need to be looking at a minimum of 30 gallons and a decent filter....they're shit machines as mentioned.

Pic of my 5 foot, high tech planted tank

And my Nemos (Common Clownfish)

I can understand to a degree about not using test kits but having an accurate way of reading ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels I feel is very important as we know 2 of those are harmful to fish. pH is also important as some tropical fish really don't do well in hard water as I found out with my Bolivian Rams.

That planted tank looks awesome. Good job and well scaped.

Do use co2 and ferts for that plant growth? I'm struggling to get my plants to flourish properly.

I recently upgraded from T8 to T5 lights and am starting to get a bit of algae growth, which isn't all disastrous but I'd rather not have it.

I'm starting to use fertiliser but don't really want to go down the co2 route if I can help it.

Here's my 180litre tropical tank anyway......

 

[jevs]

I can understand to a degree about not using test kits but having an accurate way of reading ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels I feel is very important as we know 2 of those are harmful to fish. pH is also important as some tropical fish really don't do well in hard water as I found out with my Bolivian Rams.

That planted tank looks awesome. Good job and well scaped.

Do use co2 and ferts for that plant growth? I'm struggling to get my plants to flourish properly.

I recently upgraded from T8 to T5 lights and am starting to get a bit of algae growth, which isn't all disastrous but I'd rather not have it.

I'm starting to use fertiliser but don't really want to go down the co2 route if I can help it.

Usually, the brighter your lights, the better the plants grow. As a result, CO2 and ferts will be needed, if you cut down on the lighting, the plant growth slows and the need for the CO2 and ferts falls away. I use a 2kg CO2 fire extinguisher with a regulator on and a solenoid valve and put the CO2 into the tank via a tetra 'ladder' which increases the contact time for the CO2 bubbles and they dissolve better.

I also used potting compost under playpit sand as a substrate....the plants seem to love it. The only hastle i have is the plants tend to grow too much...especially the Hygrophylla and Vallis !!! Ive run out of CO2 and im starting to get a filament algea problem. CO2 is excellent al getting rid of any algea issues. Home | UK Aquatic Plant Society is a very inspiring site to look at.

Regarding your first point about pH, i take on board what you're saying but these days, most trops are farm bred in god knows what water and it's possible to keep most fish in standard tap water. Even Discus are happy being kept at 7.5 and ive kept shoals of cardinals at the same....whereas many years ago, you wouldn't be able to keep them in anything less than filtered rain water. I have 6 Bolivian Rams and they breed like mad in my 5 foot tank above.

 

[Muzzy]

Usually, the brighter your lights, the better the plants grow. As a result, CO2 and ferts will be needed, if you cut down on the lighting, the plant growth slows and the need for the CO2 and ferts falls away. I use a 2kg CO2 fire extinguisher with a regulator on and a solenoid valve and put the CO2 into the tank via a tetra 'ladder' which increases the contact time for the CO2 bubbles and they dissolve better.

I also used potting compost under playpit sand as a substrate....the plants seem to love it. The only hastle i have is the plants tend to grow too much...especially the Hygrophylla and Vallis !!! Ive run out of CO2 and im starting to get a filament algea problem. CO2 is excellent al getting rid of any algea issues. Home | UK Aquatic Plant Society is a very inspiring site to look at.

Regarding your first point about pH, i take on board what you're saying but these days, most trops are farm bred in god knows what water and it's possible to keep most fish in standard tap water. Even Discus are happy being kept at 7.5 and ive kept shoals of cardinals at the same....whereas many years ago, you wouldn't be able to keep them in anything less than filtered rain water. I have 6 Bolivian Rams and they breed like mad in my 5 foot tank above.

FFS mate. Apart you being a hammer it looks like our hobbies are identical! Yes, I also have a nano marine tank containing, erm, yes you guessed it!

 

[Superphil]

Pic of my 5 foot, high tech planted tank

That's a very nice looking tank, really nice. As you know, a bit of time, effort and talent needed to get to that level. I have a 220l tank, decent amount of planting, Amazon Swords, grasses, some nice bogwood and a great pile of rocks. The top substrate is sand at one end and gravel at the other, the intention was to stop the Corydoras damaging their mouths by giving them the sand, but they seem to prefer snouting around in the gravel anyway

Terrible photo


Looking forward to starting the Marine tank in the Spring

 

[spongy]

I also used potting compost under playpit sand as a substrate....the plants seem to love it. The only hastle i have is the plants tend to grow too much...especially the Hygrophylla and Vallis !!! Ive run out of CO2 and im starting to get a filament algea problem. CO2 is excellent al getting rid of any algea issues. Home | UK Aquatic Plant Society is a very inspiring site to look at.

Regarding your first point about pH, i take on board what you're saying but these days, most trops are farm bred in god knows what water and it's possible to keep most fish in standard tap water. Even Discus are happy being kept at 7.5 and ive kept shoals of cardinals at the same....whereas many years ago, you wouldn't be able to keep them in anything less than filtered rain water. I have 6 Bolivian Rams and they breed like mad in my 5 foot tank above.

I was going to use sand as a substrate but bottled it and went for a fine black quartz gravel instead, maybe in the future ill try sand, especially as my corydora will love it.

My Vallis really struggles, I'm thinking about swapping it out for something else, my amazon swords and other unknown plants are doing ok, but not great.

My water in burgess hill is really hard, it's above 7.6, don't know how hard it actually is as the checking colour cards in my test kit don't go that dark green....

I've had 4 rams and they died after a month, I've been after some centre piece fish for a while but am running out of options, I tried paradise fish but they were evil and terrorised my tank bullying my other fish, I also tried some dwarf gourami but they only lasted a week.

I'm worried there may be an underlying problem in there but all my others are doing really well, it's weird, I can't find a problem with the water apart from the pH.

But Ive only had my aquarium for 6 months and I'm still new but learning quickly, already want another tank but I live in a rented flat and when I move out at some point moving the tanks is going to be a massive ball ache.

 

[jevs]

FFS mate. Apart you being a hammer it looks like our hobbies are identical! Yes, I also have a nano marine tank containing, erm, yes you guessed it!

Lol....im seriously thinking of turning my planted tank into a marine, fish only prededtor tank for lionfish, morays, angler fish, groupers etc, don't know if i have the heart to break it down tho.

My nano is done completely with natural sea water collected from Seaford. got a bit of a cyno issue at the moment and being plagued by bloody aiptasia....i put a filefish in the other week and it ate most of them but must've missed one....now ive got loads of the little fuckers. The nano was originally set up for a pair of yellow headed jawfish but one disappeared....it might still be in the filter compartment at the back lol. So, i bit the bullet and put a pair of percs in there. They share their anem with an anemone crab !!!!!