[Football] Punishing all fans for the sins of a few ?

[The red pepper kid]

Flares are easy to get in the grounds , the police dogs dont identify them clearly !. Being a slightly older person i take a bag in and most searches end swiftly with my comment sweets and small clothes fella in the bag .
I actually think if i offered a sweet - they wouldnt even look in the bag , but due to them not sticking their hands in , they will never find anything .
Youngsters stick them down the front of their trousers - area not searched , unlike little Britain at the airport.
The person that assaulted the player at forest was a idiot - long ban needed -but just that bloke , not the entire world .
Considering what happened in the 70s and 80s this is small fry but gets blown out of proportion as largely football fans are very well behaved , at least Brighton fans are

 

[portlock seagull]

We celebrated winning League 1 by running on the pitch at Withdean and we ran on the Amex pitch when we got promoted from the Championship. Nothing wrong with it. Stop being so pedantic and boring. Embrace people letting loose and having fun. As long as no ones hurt, which the majority of the time they aren't, there is nothing wrong with it.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

No generally speaking my rights are more important than Billy Sharp being a 100% safe a 100% of the time. I am allowed to own a car, despite it being a potential threat to his (and everyone elses) safety. I'm allowed to own knives so I can cook food, despite the very hypothetical chance of it being used to deny someone their safety. I am allowed to own a washing machine, despite occasions where such devices have caught fire or electrified someone. So why shouldn't I be allowed to celebrate a big victory with everyone involved despite the (very unusual) chance of someone using it in the wrong manner or risking someones safety with it? And how is it of any benefit to a community or footballer that fans and players would not be allowed to celebrate together? Should one single idiot be allowed to remove that joy, permanently?

Ah, but your judgement on safety will be different to mine. That is why we have society so as to make that decision for us.

 

[darkwolf666]

Flares are easy to get in the grounds , the police dogs dont identify them clearly !. Being a slightly older person i take a bag in and most searches end swiftly with my comment sweets and small clothes fella in the bag .
I actually think if i offered a sweet - they wouldnt even look in the bag , but due to them not sticking their hands in , they will never find anything .
Youngsters stick them down the front of their trousers - area not searched , unlike little Britain at the airport.
The person that assaulted the player at forest was a idiot - long ban needed -but just that bloke , not the entire world .
Considering what happened in the 70s and 80s this is small fry but gets blown out of proportion as largely football fans are very well behaved , at least Brighton fans are

In life we risk assess everything, constantly, from crossing the road to checking the temperature of our child’s bath before we plonk them in.

Football clubs will be risk assessing their liabilities on a daily basis, and I guess don’t want to be caught out for litigation, for any event.

I’m guessing many here wouldn’t actually rate Billy Sharp, but to Sheffield United he is clearly a valuable asset, and as such risk assessments should be made to protect those assets.

As I keep saying, I don’t want to see fans banned for running onto the pitch, but equally don’t accept the “it’s only a minority” stance. If this action had resulted in a one punch (head butt) death would we still be having this conversation about spoiling people’s fun?

I don’t know what the answer is, but I can guarantee, for some, it will be as unpopular as Mr Barber’s bottle top edict.

 

[Swansman]

Ah, but your judgement on safety will be different to mine. That is why we have society so as to make that decision for us.

In my opinion no society is flawless, I have no interest of doing, saying or thinking things just because society wants to make decisions for me about what to do, think or say.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

We celebrated winning League 1 by running on the pitch at Withdean and we ran on the Amex pitch when we got promoted from the Championship. Nothing wrong with it. Stop being so pedantic and boring. Embrace people letting loose and having fun. As long as no ones hurt, which the majority of the time they aren't, there is nothing wrong with it.

You are beeing needlessly gobby and strident about this issue, and it invites the response: sod off and suck it up if you don't like it.

Back in sensible land, everything we do, all our freedoms are a balance between liberty and the greater good. The furore about speed limits, drink drive laws, seat belts, even MOTs soon died away when the benefits became clear.

So if there is a risk of assaults during on pitch celebrations, they may be banned, or the club may suffer collateral punishment. You may be prepared to endure a headwound needing stitches after a stranger head buts you on the pich, but it is the player's place of work and different considerations apply.

 

[Swansman]

In life we risk assess everything, constantly, from crossing the road to checking the temperature of our child’s bath before we plonk them in.

Football clubs will be risk assessing their liabilities on a daily basis, and I guess don’t want to be caught out for litigation, for any event.

I’m guessing many here wouldn’t actually rate Billy Sharp, but to Sheffield United he is clearly a valuable asset, and as such risk assessments should be made to protect those assets.

As I keep saying, I don’t want to see fans banned for running onto the pitch, but equally don’t accept the “it’s only a minority” stance. If this action had resulted in a one punch (head butt) death would we still be having this conversation about spoiling people’s fun?

I don’t know what the answer is, but I can guarantee, for some, it will be as unpopular as Mr Barber’s bottle top edict.

So if someone dies in the stands at any point, fans should be banned (excuse me for not buying the "it shouldnt be banned but maybe it should be banned" 'stance') from stadiums?

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

In life we risk assess everything, constantly, from crossing the road to checking the temperature of our child’s bath before we plonk them in.

Football clubs will be risk assessing their liabilities on a daily basis, and I guess don’t want to be caught out for litigation, for any event.

I’m guessing many here wouldn’t actually rate Billy Sharp, but to Sheffield United he is clearly a valuable asset, and as such risk assessments should be made to protect those assets.

As I keep saying, I don’t want to see fans banned for running onto the pitch, but equally don’t accept the “it’s only a minority” stance. If this action had resulted in a one punch (head butt) death would we still be having this conversation about spoiling people’s fun?

I don’t know what the answer is, but I can guarantee, for some, it will be as unpopular as Mr Barber’s bottle top edict.

I think this is it. Football clubs owe a duty of care to their employees.

The PFA will, rightly, be notifying clubs who haven't stopped pitch invasions, that they are going to sue them in the event of Billy Sharp type incidents causing injury. This is what will stop the invasions happening

 

[SAC]

I have no problem with pitch invasions after the final whistle. Virtually all of them are safe if there are enough police and stewards to keep rival sets of fans apart. I don't have a problem with pyro so long as it's not being chucked about (which it often is).

As suggested before, I think Nottingham Forest should play their next home game behind closed doors. Yes, it is tough on the 99.999% of fans who didn't assault Billy Sharp but it would act as a deterrent in the future. Clubs with persistent trouble with things being chucked on the pitch should have that block of seats closed for a match. If it doesn't improve, close the stand for a match.

I don't think a points deduction would be right, not unless a club were seen to be persistently ignoring the problem.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

In my opinion no society is flawless, I have no interest of doing, saying or thinking things just because society wants to make decisions for me about what to do, think or say.

I have to say I have heard that a lot from kids in schools. As you get older you learn to value the good things about living in a community and accept the compromises that need to be made.

So if someone dies in the stands at any point, fans should be banned (excuse me for not buying the "it shouldnt be banned but maybe it should be banned" 'stance') from stadiums?

In the old days ‘taking ends’ was quite common. It involved charges across terraces. The culmination was Heysal, a decrepit stadium but Liverpool fans took no account of that when judging the safety of their actions that night. English fans were banned from Europe. It could have happened on other occasions. I was in the crush at the end of the Peterborough FA Cup match in 1986 and there are other examples. The point here is that Health and Safety Laws adapted to heightened risk from fan behaviour and likely will do so again.

 

[darkwolf666]

So if someone dies in the stands at any point, fans should be banned (excuse me for not buying the "it shouldnt be banned but maybe it should be banned" 'stance') from stadiums?

Right, I've finished conversing with your stupidity now, with your ridulous extreme examples for everything!

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

Considering what happened in the 70s and 80s this is small fry but gets blown out of proportion as largely football fans are very well behaved , at least Brighton fans are

Indeed, and it certainly wasn’t my intention in the opening post to “blow it out of proportion” I just continue to be puzzled how (IMO) such a small proportion (in this case, less than 0.01%) will make a name for themselves for the wrong reasons and we continue to be unsurprised as it appears inevitable, it’s like some sort of Squid Game “greater power” is controlling the crowd from above “Quick! There’s 30,000 people generally enjoying themselves and having a good time, send one of them over to punch a police horse or headbutt a player or something!”

Edit: just noticed this wasn’t the thread I started. It was referring to the inevitably of some individual ruining “a good night out”

 

[pocketseagull]

Barber's bottle top ban is a complete and utter nonsense. A fan who wanted to throw a full bottle onto the pitch can just stick a wad of tissue in the top or, with a bit of planning, take a lump of blu-tac to seal the end.

It's daft. It's nonsense. It makes no sense.

As I posted on another thread, hopefully our Board reps will make Barber see the error of his ways on this, and his other petty rules, that just detract from his "customers'" experience.

Or they'd take the more simple route of just having a bottle top in their pocket.

I'd imagine the club are thinking that fans don't go in with a plan to throw a bottle, it's a spur of the moment thing and having no caps lowers the odds of injury.

 

[Brovion]

The championship pitch invasions have been over the top IMO.
I think they might be banned from next season with penalties (not spot kicks) for non compliance.

Blimey, rool, long time no see. How are you? Are you still living in Ireland?

 

[herecomesaregular]

It used to be the case that there were a "few dickheads" in a big crowd. Nowadays it just seems the Dickhead Contingent has grown to a much larger proportion? Maybe it's just a perception because I am older. I've been in a few of pitch invasions over the decades at the Goldstone (York City), more celebratory at Withdean and the Amex but I would be more reluctant to go on pitch nowadays - just as there seem to be so many more absolute tools about, doing what we see recently.

 

[LamieRobertson]

No to stadium closures…perhaps better stewarding/policing (as in greater numbers) ..yep it will cost but then that’s up to the clubs and surely just for specific games …for cases such as what happened to Sharp surely that’s assault and down to the courts ….then of course we have the case of a Sheffield Utd player ALLEGEDLY stamping on a NF fan..tut!

 

[LamieRobertson]

It used to be the case that there were a "few dickheads" in a big crowd. Nowadays it just seems the Dickhead Contingent has grown to a much larger proportion? Maybe it's just a perception because I am older. I've been in a few of pitch invasions over the decades at the Goldstone (York City), more celebratory at Withdean and the Amex but I would be more reluctant to go on pitch nowadays - just as there seem to be so many more absolute tools about, doing what we see recently.

Being in ESU I’ve been more reluctant since Barber banned rope ladders

 

[BBassic]

In my opinion no society is flawless, I have no interest of doing, saying or thinking things just because society wants to make decisions for me about what to do, think or say.

Ooh careful there Swanny, you might cut someone with that edge.

 

[southstandandy]

This is the point i was ( perhaps badly ) trying to make , that i have often been told as much that points deductions etc would be unfair on all the good fans of a club but it seems ok to punish me and others individually by , for instance , not allowing me to take a flask to a game when i have not the slightest intention of throwing it at anyone !
Also i remember the bad days of being caged up and penned in and wonder if we are returning to this if a pitch invasion to express joy ends up in an assault on a player ?

I totally understand, but it's a bit like going on an aeroplane now. Never once in the past did I have to remove my shoes, belt, watch etc etc etc before boarding a flight but since 9/11 and also the shoe bomber Richard Reid, every flight I take I get practically strip searched. I have no intention of doing any harm to anyone, but we all get treated the same because some shit has done something awful in the past.

Sadly the actions of a few will seemingly always impact the majority of decent law abiding people.

 

[Arthur]

Just said on the radio that some ALL inclusive holidays are going to impose a 6 drink a day limit. So it's not limited to football although I would have thought it would have been the majority having more than 6 drinks a day whilst on holiday rather than the odd person.