Public Sector Strike Day

[beorhthelm]

Funding a pay increase and doing nothing to control the increasing cost of public sector pensions can only be covered by increasing borrowing and or cutting costs(job losses) is this a simplistic view or is there another answer.

it is not simplistic, its a very accurate view. there's no real answer (raising taxes might adjust a few billion and the odd % on the total), but politicians have buried their head in the sand on the issue for a couple of generations now.

 

[DIFFBROOK]

Pensions, apart from firemen and maybe 1 or 2 others have been settled with what the Govt says is a sustainable position.

This in the main (for me anyway) is about pay. Borrowing only increases if spending is over and beyond that of taxes being brought in.

As the economy improves, so the amount of taxes being paid also improves. As the economy improves so does GDP. GDp is running at about 2.5% per annum. I'm not saying that public sector workers should all that growth, but I do think that whatever CPI is and at the moment average earnings of around 1.5% is something that the country can afford. Is that really being unfair?

Funding a pay increase and doing nothing to control the increasing cost of public sector pensions can only be covered by increasing borrowing and or cutting costs(job losses) is this a simplistic view or is there another answer.

 

[father_and_son]

This country only has one financial problem. The money is not distributed fairly and is being stockpiled by the old boy network. The money is there, we just don't get to see any of it. 13 percent pay rise for MP's while working couples are using food banks and teachers are told to suck it up as they see their pensions disappear. We are told the government is getting them in line with the private sector. To me, that translates as "look people, look at those greedy teachers wanting more than their fair share! Look at them stealing from the nation. And they dare to strike!!"

It's as transparent as it is insidious. And 50 percent of us are falling for it.

While I won't argue with the rest of your comments, the idea that money is "stockpiled" is just stupid!

Whoever has the money and however it is used, is it invested, re-invested and re-invested multiple times. If our evil billionaire (I don't believe for a second that he is evil but I'll join in) gets an extra £100k or whatever in his pay packet, then what he doesn't do, is put it in a vault, Scrooge McDuck style and swim in it! Even if he doesn't spend on a new dubery-whatsit for his yacht (incurring VAT and contributing to the wages of the sales staff at the Chandlers, the staff at the manufactures, the driver who delivered it, etc etc), then he invests in on the stock market (incurring tax liabilities and contributing to the wages of the stockbroker, the analyst, the receptionist at the stockbrokers office, etc etc) or he leaves it in the bank (incurred tax liabilities and contributing to the wages of the bank clerk, the bank's cleaning staff, etc etc). The bank then investes the money in businesses (incurring tax liabilities, etc etc).
All of the people who have directly benefited, go off and spend their money, helping the greengrocer, the furniture salesman, the carpet fitter, etc etc. These people then spend the money again... and so do the next beneficiaries.

You can complain that this waterfall of money is not getting you wet or others you think should be getting wet, but what you can't do is pretend that the water has stopped flowing! The people getting wet may not be in this country and the government may not be taking a big enough slice or a whole host of other issues impacting the economics that is occurring... but one thing is absolutely certain... THE MONEY IS NOT STOCKPILED SOMEWHERE!

 

[Puppet Master]

 

[Brighton Mod]

Unions Manipulating workers? Yes Millions manipulated by the few lol! You could turn that around and say that Millions in this country are misled and manipulated by our Government.

Can't disagree with that.

 

[Hugo Rune]

If rich folk such as the Take That boys and Jimmy Carr paid their tax instead of paying accountants to find them legal ways of dodging it, maybe the country could afford higher salary increases and pensions contributions for public sector workers.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

While I won't argue with the rest of your comments, the idea that money is "stockpiled" is just stupid!

Whoever has the money and however it is used, is it invested, re-invested and re-invested multiple times. If our evil billionaire (I don't believe for a second that he is evil but I'll join in) gets an extra £100k or whatever in his pay packet, then what he doesn't do, is put it in a vault, Scrooge McDuck style and swim in it! Even if he doesn't spend on a new dubery-whatsit for his yacht (incurring VAT and contributing to the wages of the sales staff at the Chandlers, the staff at the manufactures, the driver who delivered it, etc etc), then he invests in on the stock market (incurring tax liabilities and contributing to the wages of the stockbroker, the analyst, the receptionist at the stockbrokers office, etc etc) or he leaves it in the bank (incurred tax liabilities and contributing to the wages of the bank clerk, the bank's cleaning staff, etc etc). The bank then investes the money in businesses (incurring tax liabilities, etc etc).
All of the people who have directly benefited, go off and spend their money, helping the greengrocer, the furniture salesman, the carpet fitter, etc etc. These people then spend the money again... and so do the next beneficiaries.

You can complain that this waterfall of money is not getting you wet or others you think should be getting wet, but what you can't do is pretend that the water has stopped flowing! The people getting wet may not be in this country and the government may not be taking a big enough slice or a whole host of other issues impacting the economics that is occurring... but one thing is absolutely certain... THE MONEY IS NOT STOCKPILED SOMEWHERE!

What about wealthy people who are 'parking' their money in property around the world then. I guess some of it can be seen as capital investment as the value of the building might go up but to all intents and purposes it is "stockpiling"

A poster on here has a good theory about Tony Bloom's Albion investment being as much about parking cash as philanthropy.

 

[cunning fergus]

The government keeps making cuts to our vital public services... meanwhile, last year, the 1,000 richest people in the country increased their personal wealth by 15% - that's £69 billion richer in a year.

"We're in this together"

We definitely are not in this together, how can we be when the top 1% of taxpayers contribute 30% of the income tax take? Those earning £1m or more pay 12% alone.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...third-of-all-income-tax-despite-rate-cut.html

Of course, its not just about tax though is it, where the Government spends its money is important too, and so, for example, the Govt spend to counter terrorism oin 2010 was £3.5bn so it must be more now what with so many more of our lads doing their bit abroad these days.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...t_data/file/97976/prevent-strategy-review.pdf
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...rism-triples-to-pound35bn-by-2010-396473.html

I suppose it would be nice to see those on strike venting their speen with a bit of balance, its not the UK Govt's tax policy that demands protest, these terrorists in our midst are stealing money from the taxpayer too..................just a thought.

 

[Brighton Mod]

Sorry, I don't want to be rude..........but you are talking rubbish.

I'll answer your questions in the order that they came

Why am I on strike? Read my post again. For a fair pay rise which I have benchmarked at around 1.5%. which is what CPI and average earnings are. If you find that excessive, I would love to know why.

I mentioned Micheal Gove because in the news today he said that this strike is being conducted by militant trade union members. Total cods wallop. As[ my posts says, normally I am not militant in any way and many of my colleagues are not militant either. Its a picture that Michael Gove wants to paint. I hope you look beyond what Ministers say. I described Michael Gove as ideological driven - which I think is closer to the truth.

I agree todays strike has zero % chance of succeeding. But what else can I do? The Govt is not listening, so this my protest. Albeit an expensive one. Hopefully, you have some principles.

Do you really believe that an employer would tolerate its staff walking out and still paying them (albeit flexi time)?

Why have I been mugged? Whose Ideology? I made my own mind up thank you, based on the facts.

Why am I not on a picket line? Is that a badge of honour? Does everyone on strike need to picket?

QUOTE=Brighton Mod;6441851]I read with interest what you have written, but still struggle to see the reason why you are on strike. Is it because Michael Gove is ideologically motivated? Thats a very high principle to go out on strike for and has zero percent chance of succeeding in whatever way you expect. Regarding those giving up a days pay, hmmm, last time we had this farce most of those who went on strike in my partners office, used their flexitime to compensate. I reckon you've been mugged off for a days pay by another ideaology. Good luck for today and why aren't you on some picketline?

[/QUOTE]

In answer to what else can you do, there are plenty of options. Do you work for the income or are you a principled public servant. if you want to earn more money then the Public Sector may not be for you, have your conditions been changed, has your bonus been cut or hours. Do you still get paid sick leave that is allocated on a yearly basis, are there any dismissals in your sector for poor performance, lateness and absenteeism. If you're a principled public servant then carry on with what you are doing. That you are striking on a principle is very commendable, but you'll still pay the mortgage/rent, feed the family and go on holiday, not really much of a contribution is it. Would you strike for three months? would you survive this and would any of your public notice?
I sit on the outside of this and watched the last efforts and I see a lot of very good people being mugged off and mobilised by the unions, getting angry, defensive and unable to take personal responsibility for their own lives. Tomorrow, todays efforts will be forgotten and next week it will be irrelevant. Sorry, I wish you all the luck, but fear you have been used.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

In answer to what else can you do, there are plenty of options. Do you work for the income or are you a principled public servant. if you want to earn more money then the Public Sector may not be for you, have your conditions been changed, has your bonus been cut or hours. Do you still get paid sick leave that is allocated on a yearly basis, are there any dismissals in your sector for poor performance, lateness and absenteeism. If you're a principled public servant then carry on with what you are doing. That you are striking on a principle is very commendable, but you'll still pay the mortgage/rent, feed the family and go on holiday, not really much of a contribution is it. Would you strike for three months? would you survive this and would any of your public notice?
I sit on the outside of this and watched the last efforts and I see a lot of very good people being mugged off and mobilised by the unions, getting angry, defensive and unable to take personal responsibility for their own lives. Tomorrow, todays efforts will be forgotten and next week it will be irrelevant. Sorry, I wish you all the luck, but fear you have been used.[/QUOTE]

God you are a patronising twerp.

 

[Brighton Mod]

So you're saying the Council tax office or the HRMC let their staff have a free day? Do you know how many work in these offices? No offence but I'm not sure I believe what you understood.

Yes, that's exactly what happened last time. So called strikers worked additional hours before and after the strike and took the day off on flexitime. Absolutely no commitment to the cause and just taking the day off, in addition to those who rang in sick!

 

[Brighton Mod]

In answer to what else can you do, there are plenty of options. Do you work for the income or are you a principled public servant. if you want to earn more money then the Public Sector may not be for you, have your conditions been changed, has your bonus been cut or hours. Do you still get paid sick leave that is allocated on a yearly basis, are there any dismissals in your sector for poor performance, lateness and absenteeism. If you're a principled public servant then carry on with what you are doing. That you are striking on a principle is very commendable, but you'll still pay the mortgage/rent, feed the family and go on holiday, not really much of a contribution is it. Would you strike for three months? would you survive this and would any of your public notice?
I sit on the outside of this and watched the last efforts and I see a lot of very good people being mugged off and mobilised by the unions, getting angry, defensive and unable to take personal responsibility for their own lives. Tomorrow, todays efforts will be forgotten and next week it will be irrelevant. Sorry, I wish you all the luck, but fear you have been used.

God you are a patronising twerp.[/QUOTE]

Ich denke nicht mein freunde, my opinion and observation are held personal. When criticised I don't take things personally and have not been wound up by highly paid union bosses whose only raison d'etre is to get more members to keep themselves in employ. Its pensions, its pay, its conditions, its Gove, the government, no responsibility and not one issue that you can hang your hat on, not one issue that makes an individual say, I can't take anymore of this I'm off. Some need to take a step back and look at this from the outside.

Sorry you feel that way.

 

[spring hall convert]

Funding a pay increase and doing nothing to control the increasing cost of public sector pensions can only be covered by increasing borrowing and or cutting costs(job losses) is this a simplistic view or is there another answer.

Raising taxation.

 

[father_and_son]

What about wealthy people who are 'parking' their money in property around the world then. I guess some of it can be seen as capital investment as the value of the building might go up but to all intents and purposes it is "stockpiling"

A poster on here has a good theory about Tony Bloom's Albion investment being as much about parking cash as philanthropy.

But they are buying the property FROM someone who is then using the money for something else. The individual no longer has the money but it is still in circulation.

You cannot "stockpile" money unless you take the cash and physically put it somewhere. Otherwise you are spending it, investing it or putting it somewhere where someone else is doing the same for their benefit.

If you convert your cash into any asset... property, art, jewelry, whatever.... You had to buy it from someone so the money remains in circulation.

This is one of the basic principles of Economics which is often ignored, glossed over or misrepresented for political/ideological reasons. But that doesn't mean its not true!

 

[throbinson]

Teachers should be fined for going on strike like we are for taking our kids on holiday in term time

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Have to agree with this particular example. The guys there really are a friendly helpful bunch.


...but it could stay open later at the weekend! When doing some major project the clearing up will usually happen at the end. I don't want the dump open early in the morning before I'm ready, I want it open into the evening when I'm finishing off!!

Why not take your rubbish down there just before it closes and then finish yourself off when you get home.

 

[Nibble]

While I won't argue with the rest of your comments, the idea that money is "stockpiled" is just stupid!

Whoever has the money and however it is used, is it invested, re-invested and re-invested multiple times. If our evil billionaire (I don't believe for a second that he is evil but I'll join in) gets an extra £100k or whatever in his pay packet, then what he doesn't do, is put it in a vault, Scrooge McDuck style and swim in it! Even if he doesn't spend on a new dubery-whatsit for his yacht (incurring VAT and contributing to the wages of the sales staff at the Chandlers, the staff at the manufactures, the driver who delivered it, etc etc), then he invests in on the stock market (incurring tax liabilities and contributing to the wages of the stockbroker, the analyst, the receptionist at the stockbrokers office, etc etc) or he leaves it in the bank (incurred tax liabilities and contributing to the wages of the bank clerk, the bank's cleaning staff, etc etc). The bank then investes the money in businesses (incurring tax liabilities, etc etc).
All of the people who have directly benefited, go off and spend their money, helping the greengrocer, the furniture salesman, the carpet fitter, etc etc. These people then spend the money again... and so do the next beneficiaries.

You can complain that this waterfall of money is not getting you wet or others you think should be getting wet, but what you can't do is pretend that the water has stopped flowing! The people getting wet may not be in this country and the government may not be taking a big enough slice or a whole host of other issues impacting the economics that is occurring... but one thing is absolutely certain... THE MONEY IS NOT STOCKPILED SOMEWHERE!

Oh my dear boy, how much you have to learn!

 

[Albumen]

Yes, that's exactly what happened last time. So called strikers worked additional hours before and after the strike and took the day off on flexitime. Absolutely no commitment to the cause and just taking the day off, in addition to those who rang in sick!

Interesting, I'll check with someone I know who has access to the council strike data.

 

[beorhthelm]

Raising taxation.

history has shown us this doesnt work. cf 1970's.

Oh my dear boy, how much you have to learn!

I'd be interested to hear more about Nibble-economics and how/where money is sitting. We have the whole evening and no football to entertain us.

 

[worthingseagull123]

The public sector needs a massive top to bottom overhaul but of course the workers wouldn't stand for that.

Based on a few experiences you may have had with local government, I do think you do not know what you are talking about. Unless you get your 'knowledge' from the Daily Mail.