[Politics] Protests/rioting in lots of places

[dsr-burnley]

I have never been overly convinced by the meaning of turn out figures. Whilst there are people who are lazy there must also be a decent number who do not vote as it's still a waste of time in some seats.

I suspect it's not all that many, though that's only gut feeling not empirical data. If it was a significant number, then the turnout in safe seats would be lower than in marginal seats, and I've never been led to believe that's true. I dare say someone, somewhere has done some analysis?

 

[CheeseRolls]

Apologies if this has been posted already. If not well worth a read.

 

[Gwylan]

Surely not in a mayoral election though - aren't they simply who gets the most votes across all constituencies in the area? That being the case a 43% turnout is dreadful although I see that Tees Valley was just over 30% which is ridiculously bad.

The way we vote in mayoral elections was changed in 2022. It used to be the Supplementary Voting System, it's now FPTP, the same as parliamentary elections.

 

[Motogull]

Apologies if this has been posted already. If not well worth a read.

Bloody woke Judges!

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I have never been overly convinced by the meaning of turn out figures. Whilst there are people who are lazy there must also be a decent number who do not vote as it's still a waste of time in some seats.

Well quite.
I've met intelligent, reasonable people who live in Newcastle, for example, who didn't bother voting in their mayoral election because they knew it wouldn't make any difference. I'm sure the same can be said of plenty of general election results as well. It doesn't make any odds to anybody if another 20,000 people from South Shields or wherever actually turn up to vote Labour, they can only win the seat once.

You can say the same thing about the percentage of people who vote for third parties like the Lib Dems, UKIP/Reform or whatever in a lot of seats. When you know with about 99% certainty who's going to win in your constituency you may as well vote for the generic protest party of the day if you're not madly committed to whichever party happens to be nailed on in your seat.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Surely not in a mayoral election though - aren't they simply who gets the most votes across all constituencies in the area? That being the case a 43% turnout is dreadful although I see that Tees Valley was just over 30% which is ridiculously bad.

I read the post I replied to as being a more general observation, as well as referring to the mayoral elections specifically.

As noted above, the system used to at least offer the chance to cast your first vote to whoever you actually wanted to win, even if you knew they'd get eliminated within about 30seconds of the count starting.

 

[cunning fergus]

Sadly @cunning fergus has fallen straight into a Russian sponsored, far right conspiracy rabbit hole.

I honestly preferred the cut and paste digs at taking the knee and statue tipping to the current tin foil hat, fascist madness.

Perhaps he's stressed at work.

It’s certainly true that I work, and have a career, it’s not a “career” posting on NSC like some people understand how other posters engage with this message board of course.

There’s definitely more to life than NSC.

 

[cunning fergus]

That sentence is possibly the most ignorant thing I have ever read on this forum.

And we used to have a member called Das Reich.

It’s not often I laugh out loud with posts on here but you managed it with this one. I can literally hear the pearls bouncing around on the floor.

Bravo.

 

[cunning fergus]

We have an obligation in law to spend a minimum of 0.5% of GNI on foreign aid, and a target spend of 0.7% to satisfy international agreement via the UN. It isn't a choice, its an obligation. This was made law in 2015, not last month when Labour took over.

We don’t have to have an obligation in law, and I fully understand it’s not Labour that enshrined it in the statue book. However, the political establishment all supported it so they can all be painted with the same brush.

The simple fact will still apply as it did when Cameron implemented the policy, we will spend billions abroad whilst we have flavours of “austerity” at home. Any Government that lavishes billions on foreign aid or futile militarily adventures in foreign countries whilst reducing benefits/support like winter fuel allowance for hard pressed British people will not be able to square that circle.

Saying it’s the law or pointing to international obligations doesn’t justify it one jot, especially since we reduced our legal commitment in the Pandemic given the scale of debt we were loading up. And which remains largely outstanding.

 

[cunning fergus]

Just to add to my earlier response

Pension credits are a means tested benefit to top up the state pension because they haven’t paid enough National Insurance with qualifying employment years/or being on benefits. It serves as a qualifying benefit for pensioners.

It is perfectly reasonable to restrict fuel payments to those on the lowest incomes - redistribution of your tax contributions instead of lining the pockets of those that don’t need it ensuring it goes to those that do.

That’s ‘who the Labour Party cares most about’.

I don’t care. It’s not a universally popular policy, and it’s perfectly reasonable to criticise it.

Source: End Fuel Poverty Coalition

Charities condemn Chancellor's Winter Fuel Payment decision

Charities have lined up to condemn the new Chancellor's decision to restrict the Winter Fuel Payment to a small group of older households.

search.app

It’s equally perfectly reasonable to line up where the Government is spending taxpayers money, in some cases increasing it and where it is cutting money.

This thread is about riots relating to migrants, and the riots are merely the tip of a public iceberg of discontent. If the Government wants to end the wider public discord on that matter I suggest reducing an established benefit for pensioners whilst scattering penniless foreigners around the country at taxpayers expense is not going to cut it.

 

[cunning fergus]

Here you are being a proud racist Robert

View attachment 187017

Of course I’m proud of that, if the lyrics I quoted directly from Krep and Konan were NOT offensive (and racist) I wouldn’t have been banned. That was the point, the moderators evidently agreed with me………quite how those 2 got the 2020 England Euros anthem gig is a mystery……….maybe it’s a 2 Tier thing?

Your use of that name is a recurring theme on here with some of the sadder posters so I will use the standard playbook in resolving it. I will bet you £1000 it’s not my name on my ID. I will send you a copy of my season ticket/other ID and I will pay £1000 to REMF if it’s “Robert”. If it’s not (which let me tell you it’s not) then you pay my patron status on here for next 10 years.

How big are your balls Pompy.

 

[cunning fergus]

15 continuous years of Racism on NSC ? That deserves an award Shirley

View attachment 187030

I was ahead of the curve on this one, it’s deriguer these days to point out the “two tier system”………….of course some will disagree, and as it was in this case.

Keep digging though, its evident you’ve got plenty of time on your hands.

 

[The Clamp]

I was ahead of the curve on this one, it’s deriguer these days to point out the “two tier system”………….of course some will disagree, and as it was in this case.

Keep digging though, its evident you’ve got plenty of time on your hands.

You okay hun?

 

[BadFish]

I was ahead of the curve on this one, it’s deriguer these days to point out the “two tier system”………….of course some will disagree, and as it was in this case.

Keep digging though, its evident you’ve got plenty of time on your hands.

No one has managed to properly point out the two-tier system though. People seem to bang on about it, but evidence is really in short supply.

You are certainly ahead of the curve in this regard.

 

[Baldseagull]

We don’t have to have an obligation in law, and I fully understand it’s not Labour that enshrined it in the statue book. However, the political establishment all supported it so they can all be painted with the same brush.

The simple fact will still apply as it did when Cameron implemented the policy, we will spend billions abroad whilst we have flavours of “austerity” at home. Any Government that lavishes billions on foreign aid or futile militarily adventures in foreign countries whilst reducing benefits/support like winter fuel allowance for hard pressed British people will not be able to square that circle.

Saying it’s the law or pointing to international obligations doesn’t justify it one jot, especially since we reduced our legal commitment in the Pandemic given the scale of debt we were loading up. And which remains largely outstanding.

Cameron committed to 0.7, but the UK has had that as a target, since 1970 as a UN member, its lower currently as a result of Covid debt, and won't go back up until borrowing has been reduced.
Every Government since 1970 has had a Foreign Aid budget, in every developed country.

 

[The Clamp]

No one has managed to properly point out the two-tier system though. People seem to bang on about it, but evidence is really in short supply.

You are certainly ahead of the curve in this regard.

Quite.

Two tier policing is a myth.

Of course peaceful protestors are going to get less hassle from the police than morons throwing burning bins at them.

I suppose now I’ll be accused of being a woke lefty loon and told that the board is an echo chamber for people who want to destroy capitalism or some such bobbins.

The truth is that the far right mob won Brexit by the skin of their missing teeth and now feel they should rule Britannia in any way they see fit and By God! If that means looting a Greggs or beating up a Muslim woman then so be it. They “won” the referendum and they are in charge.

Thankfully a few swift bricks to the plums and lenghthy prison sentences has put pay to that notion.

For now .

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Surely not in a mayoral election though - aren't they simply who gets the most votes across all constituencies in the area? That being the case a 43% turnout is dreadful although I see that Tees Valley was just over 30% which is ridiculously bad.

There was never much public appetite for a an elected mayor where there hadn't been one before. The whole business came about because Thatcher abolished the London mayoralty in a vindictive attempt to get rid of Ken Livingstone. It was of course a symbolic requirement for Blair to restore the post when he became PM. And then some bright spark thought 'let's extend the franchise' to other major urban areas.

Without a clamour for a new layer of democracy, people won't engage. It was the same with EU elections. I never knew what constituency I was in let alone which party represented me, and I was 'pro-EU'.

It doesn't detract from the fact, however, that the party/person who receives the most of the votes cast should be the winner.

And PR won't change turnout in a mayor election.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Quite.

Two tier policing is a myth.

Of course peaceful protestors are going to get less hassle from the police than morons throwing burning bins at them.

I suppose now I’ll be accused of being a woke lefty loon and told that the board is an echo chamber for people who want to destroy capitalism or some such bobbins.

The truth is that the far right mob won Brexit by the skin of their missing teeth and now feel they should rule Britannia in any way they see fit and By God! If that means looting a Greggs or beating up a Muslim woman then so be it. They “won” the referendum and they are in charge.

Thankfully a few swift bricks to the plums and lenghthy prison sentences has put pay to that notion.

For now .

Well said.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

No one has managed to properly point out the two-tier system though. People seem to bang on about it, but evidence is really in short supply.

You are certainly ahead of the curve in this regard.

That's because there is no such thing.

Some very odd people seem to think that the CPS and the judiciary is being run by public school and Oxbridge educated woke lefties.

(this is the usual sort of two-tier whnging you always get when people on the right find themselves being treated the same as their 'inferiors'. It triggers their hurty feelings).

 

[WATFORD zero]

It’s certainly true that I work, and have a career, it’s not a “career” posting on NSC like some people understand how other posters engage with this message board of course.

There’s definitely more to life than NSC.

There certainly is, if accountancy is too exciting there's always actuarial, auditing or compliance for a huge multinational



And then ranting about the very same on here