[Politics] Protests/rioting in lots of places

[Littlemo]

Please, no. The terrorism label has been over-used throughout this century, and this has nothing to do with terrorism. It is racially-motivated violence and, potentially, rioting (for which there are very severe penalties). There are also incidents of arson, attacking the police and, no doubt, many other incidents that already fall under the law book.

In the UK, the legal definition of terrorism is provided in section 1 of the Terrorism Act 2000. This defines terrorism as the use or threat of action which:

• involves serious violence against a person
• involves serious damage to property
• endangers a person’s life
• creates a serious risk to the health or safety of the public; or
• is designed seriously to interfere with or seriously to disrupt an electronic system

In circumstances where:

• the use or threat is designed to influence the government or to intimidate the public or a section of the public; and
• the use or threat is made for the purpose of advancing a political, religious or ideological cause.

https://justice.org.uk/counter-terrorism-human-rights/#:~:text=In%20the%20UK%2C%20the%20legal,endangers%20a%20person's%20life

Sounds quite a lot like it to me. Does terrorism need to be perpetrated by brown-skinned people before we call it that and send in the army?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

https://justice.org.uk/counter-terrorism-human-rights/#:~:text=In%20the%20UK%2C%20the%20legal,endangers%20a%20person's%20life

Sounds quite a lot like it to me. Does terrorism need to be perpetrated by brown-skinned people before we call it that and send in the army?

To be honest, I'm not fussed what it is called as long as it attracts heavy penalties. Years inside nasty crowded prisons. These would be entirely self-inflicted sentences.

 

[portlock seagull]

https://justice.org.uk/counter-terrorism-human-rights/#:~:text=In%20the%20UK%2C%20the%20legal,endangers%20a%20person's%20life

Sounds quite a lot like it to me. Does terrorism need to be perpetrated by brown-skinned people before we call it that and send in the army?

Do rein it in a bit. It is absolutely nothing to do with Terrorism, bares no resemblance to the IRA campaigns, July 07 bombings etc.

 

[hart's shirt]

I mean, how does anyone think trying to set fire to a large building full of people is ok/merited/justifiable?

Housing asylum seekers or not, it will also be full of local people working. Amost cettainly people who someone you know, knows.

It's pure evil.

 

[Eeyore]

It’s globalisation. But why are you letting your English identity ‘go’ because of some idiots? Aren’t you letting them win that way?

I appreciate you making that point. I think how much we identify with something depends on how much we are at ease with it. For me it less of a logical decision than it is an emotive one. As I've grown older I've identified more as being of Sussex than England. I have a mini Sussex flag that sits proudly on my desk. All very interesting because I am a Surrey immigrant.

In many ways it answers a wider question about those who are labelled as unpatriotic. There is no such thing except within the identity a person creates, and no requirement. It is voluntary, although often inherited.

I'm happy living in England, there is much about the English way that I like. Some of the old fashioned values and many of the good traditions. But these also exist in many other cultures too. It's not important to me. It could be that I am getting older and caring less, but I also suspect that the feeling that for a period of a good few years now the English identity thing has been pushed and often by the wrong people. This makes me resistant to it. I was happy as things were. But, again, you are probably right about these idiots. It has been going on for quite a while now. Why don't I like the St George Cross ? Why does it make me feel reluctant and, at times, hostile ? It's not because I don't like England, but because rather than being a symbol of peace and English comfort, and good tradition, it seems (in my subjective eyes) to have become a symbol of imagined supremacy and, if not that, nationalistic and racist tendencies. So it may be that it is not England I am hostile to, but some of those who claim to be her keepers.

Of course, others will say this is wrong and they see it differently. No-one is wrong there. It's about image. And at this time England has a negative one for me. But there is still much I hold dear about it. My afternoon in deep Sussex countryside watching cricket today felt very English. The nice English.

 

[Littlemo]

Do rein it in a bit. It is absolutely nothing to do with Terrorism, bares no resemblance to the IRA campaigns, July 07 bombings etc.

It doesn’t have to look like that. Someone said you needed this to be terrorism to bring in the army, I am simply arguing this fits the definition.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

And also the "blame Stephen Yaxley-Lennon" campaign by the police allegedly. I wondered how long that would take. Not long at all.

Seriously, just leave the poor guy alone. He's been forced to move abroad and separated from his kids, who are threatened on a daily basis. The police could well be just angry because he wouldn't hand over his phone re: the Manchester Airport footage - again ALLEGEDLY.

The poor little fella look all hurty and troubled on his sun lounger in Ayia Napa.

 

[Justice]

The 2011 riots were worse than this no need for the army or football to be played behind closed doors. The sheer numbers involved in 2011 dwarf these lot.

 

[Ike and Tina Burner]

It has been done before. Society has shifted before.

1972/3 - Me as a kid in the car with my grandparents driving through Brighton. My grandmother saw a man of colour, pointed and said "oo look there's a darky". I remember it well. She was a different person 10 years later.

Now you never can change everyone's attitude and views. You can change enough though.

Let's start by really going after those that whip this up online. Cage the dog whistlers.

How does one go about educating and persuading oafs like this? They're not interested in being educated.

The idea that you can educate the working class into being pro mass immigration is so laughably absurd and arrogant that I can't really think of a appropriate way to respond to it. It's certainly indicative of the attitude from the liberal middle class that has led us to this point.

Immigration policy and the endless supply of cheap labour it has provided has allowed successive governments to essentially abandon large sections of the (mostly) white working class. If you sat all these oafs down in a classroom and educated them on the consequences that mass immigration has had on their lives then most of them would probably be further entrenched in their views.

Attacking hotels and looting is deeply wrong. Those responsible should see the inside of a cell for a few years. Some of them are undoubtedly acting out of bigotry. But they are not wrong to want less immigration. It simply isn't in their own interests, no matter how much those who have economically benefited from it tell them otherwise.

 

[Justice]

The idea that you can educate the working class into being pro mass immigration is so laughably absurd and arrogant that I can't really think of a appropriate way to respond to it. It's certainly indicative of the attitude from the liberal middle class that has led us to this point.

Immigration policy and the endless supply of cheap labour it has provided has allowed successive governments to essentially abandon large sections of the (mostly) white working class. If you sat all these oafs down in a classroom and educated them on the consequences that mass immigration has had on their lives then most of them would probably be further entrenched in their views.

Attacking hotels and looting is deeply wrong. Those responsible should see the inside of a cell for a few years. Some of them are undoubtedly acting out of bigotry. But they are not wrong to want less immigration. It simply isn't in their own interests, no matter how much those who have economically benefited from it tell them otherwise.

Good post, Like most things in life unless it affects you directly you will struggle to see what all the fuss is about.

Lose your job and comfortable life style at 50 because the company you used to work for is now employing cheaper foreign labour and you personally can no longer make the mortgage payments is one still going to be pro immigration?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The idea that you can educate the working class into being pro mass immigration is so laughably absurd and arrogant that I can't really think of a appropriate way to respond to it. It's certainly indicative of the attitude from the liberal middle class that has led us to this point.

Immigration policy and the endless supply of cheap labour it has provided has allowed successive governments to essentially abandon large sections of the (mostly) white working class. If you sat all these oafs down in a classroom and educated them on the consequences that mass immigration has had on their lives then most of them would probably be further entrenched in their views.

Attacking hotels and looting is deeply wrong. Those responsible should see the inside of a cell for a few years. Some of them are undoubtedly acting out of bigotry. But they are not wrong to want less immigration. It simply isn't in their own interests, no matter how much those who have economically benefited from it tell them otherwise.

Every single one of us has benefited from immigration no matter how poor we are. Everyone of us has used the NHS, for example, where over 200 different nationalities work.
It isn’t immigration keeping wages down, but greedy employers wanting more profits, for example Tesco. £2.3 billion before tax.

 

[dwayne]

Looking forward to people on here telling us that this is actually Starmer saying that anyone who doesn’t subscribe to the Socialist Worker is basically rimming Hitler.

It is a bit strange to me that he keeps attributing all trouble to far right groups. We've already seen a lot of trouble is caused by bored kids or morons. Don't see the angle in tarring everyone with the same brush ? This is what started some of this trouble in the first place.

 

[Nobby]

Send in the troops. It’s unfair to expect the police to deal with this.

Yes but aren’t around 50% of them little Tommy R’s supporters?

 

[Deadly Danson]

Every single one of us has benefited from immigration no matter how poor we are. Everyone of us has used the NHS, for example, where 200 over different nationalities work.
It isn’t immigration keeping wages down, but greedy employers wanting more profits, for example Tesco. £2.3 billion before tax.

Yep, there's a reason this old meme is so accurate.

 

[Nobby]

Thuggery yes, but we’re a million miles from a March on Rome or Beerhall coup. This country is still a strong democracy. These perpetrators will be dealt with. A few hundred thugs and their moronic onlookers hasn’t shaken our foundations.

Said a lot of Germans in 1931…..

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It is a bit strange to me that he keeps attributing all trouble to far right groups. We've already seen a lot of trouble is caused by bored kids or morons. Don't see the angle in tarring everyone with the same brush ? This is what started some of this trouble in the first place.

Did you intend to use that phrase in your third sentence?

 

[Chicken Run]

Every single one of us has benefited from immigration no matter how poor we are. Everyone of us has used the NHS, for example, where 200 over different nationalities work.
It isn’t immigration keeping wages down, but greedy employers wanting more profits, for example Tesco. £2.3 billion before tax.

I don’t think the issue is as binary as that, i think there is a big difference in their eyes between the medical professionals from overseas etc than the large amount of lone male refugees holed up in hotels and hostels across the country

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I don’t think the issue is as binary as that, i think there is a big difference in their eyes between the medical professionals from overseas etc than the large amount of lone male refugees holed up in hotels and hostels across the country

Who said there were lone male refugees in hotels? Children were also holed up in hotels, until they went missing.

The tragedy is that the previous government stopped processing claims and allowed numbers to build up and up. This has been a simmering pot for a long time, and now it’s boiled over.

 

[Chicken Run]

Yep. The Tories cause a real problem here. I guess they cold put loads on the bibby Stockholm?

You forgot to mention Rwanda

 

[Chicken Run]

This has been a simmering pot for a long time, and now it’s boiled over.

There’s no doubt about that