Protesters hope to arrest Tony Blair!

[SeagullinExile]

What about Maggie? The second best modern era PM after Churchill?

What exactly did Blair do to help this Country, apart from give away all Maggie's hard-won concessions from the EU, preside over the sale of our Gold Reserves for peanuts, and lose control of the financial sector?

...you forgot to add that he's taken this country into various war zones more times than any other PM in modern history!

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

The point I was making is that at any given time there are issues and actions that can and will be challenged after the event. I dont diagree with yours or Bushy's summation but that doesnt mean the questions is wrong to be asked.

It is because these things happen when you are at war that prime ministers have a great responsibility on their shoulders to make the correct initial decison. Particularly when we are the instigators.

 

[GreersElbow]

What about Maggie? The second best modern era PM after Churchill?

What exactly did Blair do to help this Country, apart from give away all Maggie's hard-won concessions from the EU, preside over the sale of our Gold Reserves for peanuts, and lose control of the financial sector?

Maggie gave us the EU...

 

[User removed 4]

What about the atrocities Saddam was committing? And his breaking agreements refusal to allow weapons' inspectors into Iraq?
I was against the War but there were certainly a few legitimate reasons

I would really love it (kevin keegan stylee) if a US president were publicly put on the spot about Israels nuclear arsenal, and why we arent imposing sanctions on them for ignoring UN resolutions and breaking the non proliferation pact.

 

[User removed 4]

Maggie gave us the EU...

Dont you mean Ted Heath ?

 

[Landgull]

Our greatest ever prime minister. . the mind boggles over this small minority doesn't it

You can see I have just tuned into NSC (1336) and was hoping for a sensible comment on this situation when I read your post.

Obviously NOT!

 

[GreersElbow]

Dont you mean Ted Heath ?

Either way, it was the administration and the treaties signed under Thatcher that still entrenched our position within the EU - Yes, Blair further entrenched us. By why didn't Maggie just pull us out to prevent any further integration. I'm no labour apologist, but thank god Brown resisted joining the Euro. Which Ken Clarke was in favour of such an idea because he was a pro-EU chancellor.

 

[1959]

This is also correct, although suspicions remain that Thatcher partly engineered that war to boost her own standing at home. (It is possible that Thatcher had intelligence that Galtieri was planning on an invasion well before it happened, but clearly that's never going to be proven one way or the other)

It was a fairly open topic of conversation among British soldiers, in Germany anyway, at least six months before the invasion. It certainly wasn't a surprise.

 

[Hamilton]

A prime minister makes no more important decision than the one that puts its armed forces in a situation where some of them are not going to come back. So to have to persuade parliament and the country that it is necessary - you better be sure you are right. Make your mistakes with interest rates.

Couldn't agree more. I was against him going into Iraq, but I wouldn't say it was a mistake of office. It is not a decision I would have made at that time, but as I said earlier in the post, action of some sort was inevitable at some time. I think a more compelling argument for intervention would have surfaced at some point.

Of course we're inventing our own history here based upon our memories of what the world was like then and the convenience of not having had Sadam in place for the last decade.

 

[00snook]

Tony Blair The man who illegally took us to war in the Middle East.......then the stupid world makes him Middle East Peace Envoy........
That was like putting Cyril Smith in charge of Handgliding......

Absolutely THIS.

Remarkable that somebody who felt that an illegal war in the Middle East was a good idea, and stated publicly that "his faith" allowed him to believe it was the right thing to do is later made the Peace Envoy of the very place he started illegal wars in.

Truly one of the most ridiculous things to have happened for some time. The fact that it has been largely ignored by the press, and most of the public, just goes to show another example of how detached politics is from the rest of society.

 

[glasfryn]

Rumour and counter-rumour and so suddenly "personal promises" become fact. This is how history gets reinvented by the chattering classes as well as by the political classes.

I didn't support our going to war in Iraq, but equally I would take to task all the hand-wringing liberals that wanted Sadam removed for his atrocities and yet expected it to happen peacefully through UN sanctions. PS, Sadam was totally different to Mugabe - Sadam was ruling over a country in a strategically important part of the world for all of us. Mugabe is not. Sad, but fact.

Blair made a mistake going to war in Iraq, but equally Sadam was unstable and action in Iraq was inevitable sooner or later.

Despite his mistake in this area and his mistakes in domestic policy, he was still a good prime minister and a good leader. If you could compare schools and hospitals before Blair came to power against what he left behind you would instantly see vast improvements.

And if you don't take my word for it, then take a look at his final commons speech and the reaction of the opposition benches. The same government that bemoans everything to do with the recession today on Blair and Brown was fully supportive of Blair's economic policy when in opposition. Blair made mistakes in letting the private sector take on too many public contracts - but his thinking was right. He made mistakes in letting the finance sector regulate itself and his thinking here was wrong in my opinion.

Largely though, he got things right.

People expect our leaders to make no mistakes. Fact is, they do.

YOU GET MY "MOST SENSIBLE POST OF THE WEEK" prize

I think if anyone in anywhere in Africa should be arrested it should be the bloody useless son of thatchers abolute ponce and an arms dealer to boot

 

[Biffer]

If you could compare schools and hospitals before Blair came to power against what he left behind you would instantly see vast improvements.

Well that's because he didn't generally pay for them !
The beautiful old hospital buildings have been flogged off to developers. Good examples are Hove hospital & Brighton Childrens hospital.
The replacement service is usually a PFI thing which may look shiny and new, but they're on the credit card and will cost many many times more than they should, saddling the next couple of generations with huge debt.
We can all do this. It's only when living within your means and providing a good service that you can call it a success.

 

[Biscuit]

Rumour and counter-rumour and so suddenly "personal promises" become fact. This is how history gets reinvented by the chattering classes as well as by the political classes.

I didn't support our going to war in Iraq, but equally I would take to task all the hand-wringing liberals that wanted Sadam removed for his atrocities and yet expected it to happen peacefully through UN sanctions. PS, Sadam was totally different to Mugabe - Sadam was ruling over a country in a strategically important part of the world for all of us. Mugabe is not. Sad, but fact.

Blair made a mistake going to war in Iraq, but equally Sadam was unstable and action in Iraq was inevitable sooner or later.

Despite his mistake in this area and his mistakes in domestic policy, he was still a good prime minister and a good leader. If you could compare schools and hospitals before Blair came to power against what he left behind you would instantly see vast improvements.

And if you don't take my word for it, then take a look at his final commons speech and the reaction of the opposition benches. The same government that bemoans everything to do with the recession today on Blair and Brown was fully supportive of Blair's economic policy when in opposition. Blair made mistakes in letting the private sector take on too many public contracts - but his thinking was right. He made mistakes in letting the finance sector regulate itself and his thinking here was wrong in my opinion.

Largely though, he got things right.

People expect our leaders to make no mistakes. Fact is, they do.

Excellent, well-reasoned post.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Excellent, well-reasoned post.

Except for the part about Saddam - more like post-event justification. Many of Saddam's atrocities happened long before the invasion and were well known to the West at the time. Very well known. Action was never inevitable. Same with the other Middle East despots. Be honest - Bush had a score to settle and Blair was the dupe. And our young servicemen paid the price.

 

[geodavies]

Our greatest ever prime minister. . the mind boggles over this small minority doesn't it

You are f***ing joking...........got us into a war then f***ed off....the mans a total f***ing disgrace

 

[Questions]

What about the atrocities Saddam was committing? And his breaking agreements refusal to allow weapons' inspectors into Iraq?
I was against the War but there were certainly a few legitimate reasons

Sadaam breaking agreements on weapons inspections was to be dealt with under the sanctions put in place at the time prior to Res 1441. This is an interesting bit from Blix as to why the original inspectors were met with such hostility in Iraq.

Blix also conceded that the previous UN mission, UNSCOM, withdrawn in 1998, had been compromised by being “too closely associated with intelligence and with Western states,” and he could give no assurance that the new teams would not contain spies. “To people who ask me are you absolutely sure that you will have no spies, I say no. Neither the KGB nor the CIA can give that absolute assurance. All I can tell you is that if I see someone with two hats, I’ll ask them to walk out,” Blix said. (The Independent)

 

[melias shoes]

The problem with that statement is that he allowed Brown free rein to monumentally f*** up the country's finances for 11 years. That makes him one of the worst PMs we've ever had.

Correct and continued to do so why pm.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Not wanting to rake over old coals - but this is todays Doonesbury flashback.