[Politics] Proportional Representation

[Tim Over Whelmed]

Given that the Lib Dems received 7.4% of the vote at the last election and the Greens 1.6% but only ended up with 2% and 0.15% of the seats in Parliament do you think it's time to change the voting system and adopt PR or a similar variant of it?

My main concern is all MPs have to tow the party line and therefore we end up with Left or Right and none of the extremes, we have no "characters" and a lot of very safe career politicians, be that left, right or centre. The most worrying aspect of people not having a platform to explain their views and have these views challenged through debate is that they adopt more violent or disruptive means to be heard or fail to be heard and become detached from the process. Introducing PR now would mean EVERY vote counts.

Surely it would be better to have a parliament that allowed you to be represented if your views were shared by say 0.25% of the electorate; you'd have at least one seat so you knew someone in there was fighting your corner for what you felt was right?

People worry about decisions not being made but like anything in life you need to achieve a majority and if you don't then maybe it's not the right thing to do or we introduce a consensus policy depending on whether you are debating the lesser spotted newt or going to war with Syria! People also worry about extreme politics being included in mainstream politics, bust it should be surely rather than forced underground?

 

[vegster]

Given that the Lib Dems received 7.4% of the vote at the last election and the Greens 1.6% but only ended up with 2% and 0.15% of the seats in Parliament do you think it's time to change the voting system and adopt PR or a similar variant of it?

My main concern is all MPs have to tow the party line and therefore we end up with Left or Right and none of the extremes, we have no "characters" and a lot of very safe career politicians, be that left, right or centre. The most worrying aspect of people not having a platform to explain their views and have these views challenged through debate is that they adopt more violent or disruptive means to be heard or fail to be heard and become detached from the process. Introducing PR now would mean EVERY vote counts.

Surely it would be better to have a parliament that allowed you to be represented if your views were shared by say 0.25% of the electorate; you'd have at least one seat so you knew someone in there was fighting your corner for what you felt was right?

People worry about decisions not being made but like anything in life you need to achieve a majority and if you don't then maybe it's not the right thing to do or we introduce a consensus policy depending on whether you are debating the lesser spotted newt or going to war with Syria! People also worry about extreme politics being included in mainstream politics, bust it should be surely rather than forced underground?

We need a period of benevolent dictatorship so as the country can be sorted out without constant backsliding and bickering.

 

[Chicken Run]

We need a period of benevolent dictatorship so as the country can be sorted out without constant backsliding and bickering.

Yep and Jeremy is the man to do it!

 

[stss30]

With PR you would have a hung Parliament pretty much every time. Would not be a recipe for strong leadership, although to be honest none of the party leaders inspire any confidence in me at the moment!

The other issue with PR is that the local constituency you reside in will be 'allocated' an MP as opposed to voting for someone who you think represents the local area adequately.

 

[Juan Albion]

With PR you would have a hung Parliament pretty much every time. Would not be a recipe for strong leadership, although to be honest none of the party leaders inspire any confidence in me at the moment!

That's why it is a good thing. Parties would have to get used to trying to work together.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

We need a period of benevolent dictatorship so as the country can be sorted out without constant backsliding and bickering.

.... and what politician would you suggest is best placed to deliver this?

 

[studio150]

Never going to happen unless a sitting government decides to change the system, which would dilute their power so effectively a non starter

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

.... and what politician would you suggest is best placed to deliver this?

Nigel Farage.....






Lol.

 

[spring hall convert]

With PR you would have a hung Parliament pretty much every time. Would not be a recipe for strong leadership, although to be honest none of the party leaders inspire any confidence in me at the moment!

This argument used to hold a bit of water but we haven't had a significant majority yet this decade so FPTP isn't even doing the one thing that it's supposed to do.

The other issue with PR is that the local constituency you reside in will be 'allocated' an MP as opposed to voting for someone who you think represents the local area adequately.

Not necessarily. Depends on what type of PR you are using.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

With PR you would have a hung Parliament pretty much every time. Would not be a recipe for strong leadership, although to be honest none of the party leaders inspire any confidence in me at the moment!

The other issue with PR is that the local constituency you reside in will be 'allocated' an MP as opposed to voting for someone who you think represents the local area adequately.

Yes, every time, and therefore the politicians would be self policing because they couldn't hide behind party strategy and would need to explain what they've done towards the promises they gave. 650 independents would be better than the current system, clearly they'd still be the major parties taking a lot of the seats but even they'd have to behave to keep the MPs that don't necessarily agree blindly with policy.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

Never going to happen unless a sitting government decides to change the system, which would dilute their power so effectively a non starter

Or the strong will of the people?

 

[Is it PotG?]

How times change

 

[vegster]

.... and what politician would you suggest is best placed to deliver this?

No politician could deliver it, as they are politicians..... excluding Boris Johnson of course.

 

[studio150]

Or the strong will of the people?

 

[father_and_son]

Given that the Lib Dems received 7.4% of the vote at the last election and the Greens 1.6% but only ended up with 2% and 0.15% of the seats in Parliament do you think it's time to change the voting system and adopt PR or a similar variant of it?

My main concern is all MPs have to tow the party line and therefore we end up with Left or Right and none of the extremes, we have no "characters" and a lot of very safe career politicians, be that left, right or centre. The most worrying aspect of people not having a platform to explain their views and have these views challenged through debate is that they adopt more violent or disruptive means to be heard or fail to be heard and become detached from the process. Introducing PR now would mean EVERY vote counts.

Surely it would be better to have a parliament that allowed you to be represented if your views were shared by say 0.25% of the electorate; you'd have at least one seat so you knew someone in there was fighting your corner for what you felt was right?

People worry about decisions not being made but like anything in life you need to achieve a majority and if you don't then maybe it's not the right thing to do or we introduce a consensus policy depending on whether you are debating the lesser spotted newt or going to war with Syria! People also worry about extreme politics being included in mainstream politics, bust it should be surely rather than forced underground?

With PR you would have a hung Parliament pretty much every time. Would not be a recipe for strong leadership, although to be honest none of the party leaders inspire any confidence in me at the moment!

The other issue with PR is that the local constituency you reside in will be 'allocated' an MP as opposed to voting for someone who you think represents the local area adequately.

Not only would you need to change the voting system but the entire fundamental premise of our democracy.

We are designed to be and operate as a Confrontational Democracy. The job of the opposition is to oppose government. This is why parties vote pretty much as a bloc and we have whips ensuring they all tow the party line or face a damn good thrashing.

The purpose of this is to constantly challenge the decisions of government, constantly propose an alternative view and rigorously debate the rights and wrongs of government policy rather than parliament rubber-stamping the decisions of government.

This has its merits but the significant drawback is that a hung parliament doesn't really work. The voting blocs mean that minority parties can press a minority agenda if they are part of a coalition because they tip the balance for majority (because the opposition will always vote against).

If you accept proportional representation you also have to change the system so each vote is a free vote and there are no whips or party positions. If the government have a good idea the other parties are not obliged to disagree with the idea "just for the sake of it".

If you make the two change in parallel then PR would work, but you certainly cannot make a change to the voting system without making a complementary change to rest of our democratic system.
And to do the latter you pretty much need to get rid of ALL the career politicians with their ingrained views of how they should operate!

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Given that the Lib Dems received 7.4% of the vote at the last election and the Greens 1.6% but only ended up with 2% and 0.15% of the seats in Parliament do you think it's time to change the voting system and adopt PR or a similar variant of it?

Sorry, I only read the first paragraph and that was enough to tell you what I think.

The nation is already a weak fluffy place, so I certainly would want those two parties getting any more seats.


So it's a NO from me.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

Sorry, I only read the first paragraph and that was enough to tell you what I think.

The nation is already a weak fluffy place, so I certainly would want those two parties getting any more seats.


So it's a NO from me.

So it may have been better reading on, these examples only demonstrate the inequality of the current system with regard to the will of the people, it's not a case for these parties.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

So it may have been better reading on, these examples only demonstrate the inequality of the current system with regard to the will of the people, it's not a case for these parties.

Sorry, I could not read on the words Lib dem and green party so close together, was enough to kill this thread for me.

No offence to you Tim but when are we going to get that Arundel bypass?

I am happy to get my 2 stroke chainsaw out and whack a few trees over for a road if that helps.

 

[vegster]

So it may have been better reading on, these examples only demonstrate the inequality of the current system with regard to the will of the people, it's not a case for these parties.

Part of my case for a Benevolent Dictatorship is based on the fact that so many people are already disengaged from politics already. If we had ten years of dictatorship for better or worse, you would see the first election afterwards have an astronomic turn out by todays standards. Then, we'd have politicians with a mandate and hopefully some degree of consensus about getting things done.

 

[Stat Brother]

Yep and Tony is the man to do it!

...